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#1
02-10-2006, 03:50 PM
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$10/20 Stud 8/b - Value raise on the end with Aces up?
7 Card Stud High-Low ($10/$20), Ante $1, Bring-In $3 (hand converter)
3rd Street - (0.50 SB) Seat 1: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes Seat 5: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in___calls Seat 7: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds 4th Street - (2.50 SB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___calls Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises 5th Street - (3.25 BB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets 6th Street - (5.25 BB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks River - (5.25 BB) Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___bets___ ? Total pot: (9.25 BB) The player in question is not very good, from what I have seen so far, and will take shots and make poor value bets on the end. In this case, it's pretty unlikely he hit a low and is much more likely he is either bluffing or has a worse two pair. Let's say Villain reraised me on the river. Do I call or fold? Let's say Villain calls on the river. Do you think my hand is good for half or all of it? 
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#2
02-10-2006, 04:13 PM
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Re: $10/20 Stud 8/b - Value raise on the end with Aces up?
Do you normally complete third in this type of situation?
I used to make this type of play "I have an ace, you're an idiot if you call me". But if villain has a decent low you're just throwing money away, and winning very little if they fold.... or is this just another example of how I've become a tight old nit? [ QUOTE ] Let's say Villain reraised me on the river. Do I call or fold? [/ QUOTE ] If he reraises I'd say you're screwed. You can probably safely fold. Although I doubt I'd be able to do it. [ QUOTE ] Let's say Villain calls on the river. Do you think my hand is good for half or all of it? [/ QUOTE ] You'll be good for all of it quite often. But even morons can hit a low on the river.
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#3
02-10-2006, 04:13 PM
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Re: $10/20 Stud 8/b - Value raise on the end with Aces up?
this hand is kinda interesting but i can't figure out if a raise is right on the end or not. one deciding factor is how often he will call the raise with a bad two pair.
if he 3 bets though...aren't we pretty sure he will scoop with a 23456 or 34567?
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#4
02-10-2006, 06:16 PM
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Re: $10/20 Stud 8/b - Value raise on the end with Aces up?
I usually fold 3rd, then check fold 4th. Since we got to fifth I think it is meh to call down with just KK for half the pot. I could just call on the river becuase the only hand you get value from is two pair. He could have a small two pair but most likely it seems like you are either going to only win half the pot or more potentially get scooped by hidden trips or seomthing else. I dont really see a point where you are ahead during this hand. Let it go early bro...
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#5
02-10-2006, 07:45 PM
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Re: $10/20 Stud 8/b - Value raise on the end with Aces up?
[ QUOTE ]
I usually fold 3rd, then check fold 4th. [/ QUOTE ] Good god, you play so tight in these games. Your VPIP has to be around 10 based on the comments you've made. Third street is an almost no-brainer steal, and 4th is just a continuation bet. I could fold to the raise, but people in this game defend their bring-in with a lot more than three suited babies. [ QUOTE ] Since we got to fifth I think it is meh to call down with just KK for half the pot. [/ QUOTE ] What makes you think I am calling down for half? Look at his board? [ QUOTE ] I dont really see a point where you are ahead during this hand. Let it go early bro... [/ QUOTE ] You advocate really, really WAY too tight strategies in the majority of your comments. You strike me as the kind of player that is easily exploitable in stud because you play into the hands of exactly what your opponent represents, rather than trusting what you think he has. Just something to think about.
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#6
02-10-2006, 07:50 PM
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Re: $10/20 Stud 8/b - Value raise on the end with Aces up?
[ QUOTE ]
this hand is kinda interesting but i can't figure out if a raise is right on the end or not. one deciding factor is how often he will call the raise with a bad two pair. [/ QUOTE ] To both Bremen and highlife (I will combine my comments): He will call the raise with a worse two pair close to 100% of the time - probably around 95%. Does this make the three-bet good? Not sure - fours are totally live, but I really think MHIG for high. [ QUOTE ] if he 3 bets though...aren't we pretty sure he will scoop with a 23456 or 34567? [/ QUOTE ] I'm getting a real good price to call, because if I was in his spot, I would bet two pair and fold to a raise, and I would bet with any low and three-bet any raise. I don't think I'm getting three-bet by only hands that scoop me, at least not enough to justify a fold. However, this goes back to the original point - should I even three-bet in the first place? EDIT: To address Bremen's question: "Do you normally complete third in this type of situation?" Not usually, but in a game with tight or regular players, stealing BIs and antes is a big part of staying afloat to play big pots. Think Doyle Brunson's strategy of picking up small pots continually to freeroll big ones even if you're a slight underdog - it's a similar strategy.
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#8
02-10-2006, 10:25 PM
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Re: $10/20 Stud 8/b - Value raise on the end with Aces up?
[ QUOTE ]
it's not tight to abandon a steal on 4th st. when villian caught good, it's just smart poker [/ QUOTE ] You're assuming that he's not restealing. If you assume that players at $10/20 aren't going to defend/resteal from you in shorthanded stud games, you're going to lose. Fast.
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#9
02-10-2006, 10:34 PM
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Re: $10/20 Stud 8/b - Value raise on the end with Aces up?
players who resteal are ill-advised to weakly call and then raise on 4th when you've represented aces - it's a weak play in my book - reraising 3rd is the way to go if you suspect larceny
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