not raising strong flop hands on darw heavy boards(theory?)

[CallYNotRaise06]

i see people making these plays all the time, and i was wondering if theres any benifit in this.


lets say, 5/10 eff stacks 100bb.

hero is button with 6678 rainbow.

co raies to 35, hero calls, blinds fold utg calls.

flop JcTh6c(90)

co bets 90. i see people calling here alot hoping for a blank turn to throw in a raise. why do they wait for the turn to put in a raise? is it because this is a semi dangerous board, and tehy dont want to bloat the pot now when alot of scary cards can come on the turn and kill their action?

i could understand why theyd want to do that, but doesnt that make you outguess yourself alot on the turn? i mean if the 7d comes off and they bet into you, do you call? can you get in a value raise?. i think while this controls the pot a little better, it lets your opponents make alot of hands for cheap, and could end up costing you alot trying to figure out if theyve got it or not.


a plus to this though, is if your against an aggressive opponent who would double barrel alot, you can get in some big value raises on the turn....idk. what kind of boards do you look for when using this play? also, what types of players do you use it against?

[glass_onion]

I can certaintly see calling this behind on the flop. It would take a very specific read - tilting or uber LAG - for me to do anyting else.

The range you are up against here is likely at best a coinflip, and you could have set over set here. Why would I want to make a huge pot no 3rd nut made hand on a super draw heavy board, facing larger turn and river bets where I will very likley not know if I am still best? I would also be negating my positional advantage if opponents decided to push to my raise.

I've played this hand calling down, turn hit the obvious st8 draws, and I called again knowing full well I'd be potting any board pair or flush. I honestly cant see any other way to play this hand on this board against anythign but donkey opponents.

[piiop]

glass,

I'm pretty sure that you think he's talking about an unraised pot cuz I was thinking the same thing until I reread the OP and saw that he's talking about a raised pot and the pfr is c-betting the flop. If you knew that, well then I disagree.

[grizy]

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glass,

I'm pretty sure that you think he's talking about an unraised pot cuz I was thinking the same thing until I reread the OP and saw that he's talking about a raised pot and the pfr is c-betting the flop. If you knew that, well then I disagree.

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I generally agree with piiop

If you can't shove it in on that flop... you had no business calling the preflop raise. you're looking at AQJT, AKQJ, AAKQ, or some crap like that a lot. You're goign for it anyway, just shove it in while you're ahead and maximize your value. GH if he got TT or JJ.

And like the OP pointed out, lots of cards here would kill your action or maybe even make you fold the best hand. Just shove it.

[Troll_Inc]

Nice troll CallYNotRaise you really roped in a bunch of suckers.

I don't know how (or why) anyone could answer this without knowing the pre- and postflop tendencies of the CO/Villain. Do you people just like to type to watch stuff come up on the internet? This would be a better forum if people used a little bit more discretion in use of their posting energies.

Villain type #1. Plays 45% of hands and raises 10% of the time with little regard for position. Plays very tight on the flop.

Villain type #1b. Same as #1 except is very loose/aggressive post flop - On flop bets draws and made hands the same way, i.e. puts in first raise or will reraise and aggro player.

Villain type #2. Plays 65%, raises almost every time on button or CO, but is much more selective in the blinds and EP. Plays tight postflop.

Villain type #3. Plays very few hands but plays them poorly across all streets.

Villain type 4#. 35% of hands played, raises only premium hands (big pairs, doublesuited connectors with no gaps, combos, etc) on button or in CO if button is weak. On flop bets draws and made hands the same way.

[pete fabrizio]

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Do you people just like to type to watch stuff come up on the internet?

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Is there any other reason?

[grizy]

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Do you people just like to type to watch stuff come up on the internet?

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Yes. This is much more entertaining then listening to my professor dribble on about the comparative economic systems of Latin America and Asia.

[TheRempel]

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Do you people just like to type to watch stuff come up on the internet? This would be a better forum if people used a little bit more discretion in use of their posting energies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Take your own advice, stop campaigning for mod, and quit getting on peoples [censored] when they try to post some kind of interesting strategy discussion other than 'What do I do with top set ona 4 straight board?".

[CallYNotRaise06]

ok, thats what im asking you guys. what board do you like to wait for safe card? against what kind of villains? when do you do it? all the questions you guys are asking me are the ones im asking you. i dont use this play, im more of a jam it in there player. im just looking to see how this works and if i can add it into my strategy.

[TheRempel]

The only time I do it is when I am playing against a really hyper aggro LAG that will pot the flop with a huge range and fold most one pair hands. Sometimes I'll take a risk in letting him improve to two pair, but generally I also play sets very fast on sketchy boards.