Re-evaluating Stuey Ungar

Johnny Hughes · #1 02-14-2007, 12:46 PM

In my humble view, Stuey Ungar would not make a list of the top fifty best poker players. A poker player has to have a little bit of management about them. He was broke all the time. He died coked up and broke a few months after winning the World Series. Pathetic form of loser's suicide.

I was there the year he won the big one and it was very uplifting. The comeback Kid. Great press. Stuey kept a small picture of his daughter behind his chips to remind him the money was real. I started doing that. To determine who is great over time, you must look at players that stay in money. Some people are playing poker for the glory, rebuying way too many times and entering every possible tournament.

I can think of four World Champs whose early demise could partially be attributed to alcohol and/or drugs.

I think you have to be a great gambler not just a great poker player to make anyone's top anything list. What are your personal leaks? One of the top players can be found very early in the morning shooting craps. He lowers his eyes in shame when old gamblers amble by. Many bet sports. When all the big players were betting golf higher than a hawk's nest, Stuey asked Treetop Strauss, also a World Champ, to teach him to play. Treetop beat him out of $58,000 on the putting green. The first time I met Treetop, I challenged him to play me head up which is a normal greeting in the Lone Star State. He drew out. When I see him not long after in Las Vegas, he is broke from his sports betting leak. I admire the colorful characters with leaks and I am one, however I see this wonderful web site as a way to speak to the newer, younger, serious players.

Many of the people reading about poker are trying to make the decision whether or not they can make it as poker players. Some have a serious plan to learn and grow and move up in limits. All of this discussion is about what to do at the table. You have to really manage yourself.

I love downtown Vegas but I wouldn't want to die there.

Poker is the best and hardest job. It is the hardest easy money you will ever make. Stuey is sitting there with this picture of his daughter on the table. It was a very human thing that captured the imagination of the press and the crowd as the "Comeback Kid" dusted out one player after another until he was sitting behind a pile of chips once more. Where did all that money go?
Up his already damaged nose.

What are your leaks? You need to walk through a casino thinking that you are one of the few people who will be taking the best of it. There's only one place you might, just might, get the best of it...the poker table. You cannot get the best of it at any casino game. You cannot get the best of it drunk. You cannot get the best of it at the sports book. You cannot get the best of it high.

What are your leaks? Either you can make it as a poker player or you cannot. It's all about leaks.

Stuey died in a scary sleazy rundown hotel on East Fremont Street, alone, sad, and he had $58 in his bankroll. He was an all time top gin and poker player but he could not handle cocaine.

What are your leaks? Johnny Hughes

bones · #2 02-14-2007, 12:50 PM

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What are your leaks?

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AntonHeat · #3 02-14-2007, 01:22 PM

Not sure if this is a troll or if im getting 3rd leved here but,

Stu Ungar was good if not great.

Yes he went Busto yes he did coke yes he sucked at Bankroll managment but what he had was Heart and a little gamble in him, and in a city like Vegas that's really all you need.

Now if he were alive today he would be playing in the big games for sure. For a guy like him getting a stake would be easy

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Stu Ungar [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

EmpireMaker2 · #4 02-14-2007, 01:24 PM

Stop knocking coke.....

Don Olney · #5 02-14-2007, 01:25 PM

you have a few facts wrong here...

----Stuey died in a scary sleazy rundown hotel on East Fremont Street, alone, sad, and he had $58 in his bankroll. -------

Unger died with $800 in his pocket and the hotel was in the Las Vegas strip. It was a cheap porn hotel they found him in.

This information comes from the Las Vegas Obit. about his death and also can be found with a simple search on the net. Every Obit. has this very same information.....

pyedog · #6 02-14-2007, 01:26 PM

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Now if he were alive today he would be playing in the big games for sure. For a guy like him getting a stake would be easy
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Stu Ungar [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

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From what I've read he was terrible in cash games against good players. He was a tilt monkey and frequently played drunk and high. I can't imagine that anyone smart would stake him in the big game, but tournaments would be a different story.

AntonHeat · #7 02-14-2007, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Now if he were alive today he would be playing in the big games for sure. For a guy like him getting a stake would be easy
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Stu Ungar [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

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From what I've read he was terrible in cash games against good players. He was a tilt monkey and frequently played drunk and high. I can't imagine that anyone smart would stake him in the big game, but tournaments would be a different story.

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But what he lost in Cash games he made in Main events so works out somehow

dogmeat · #8 02-14-2007, 01:41 PM

Stu was one of the greatest gin players ever.

He was one of the greatest NL poker tournament players ever.

Your list is flawed.

FWIW, I don't know if he was that sad when he died, I wasn't there...........were you?

He spent twenty years doing what he loved, living the high life (no pun intended) and never working a regular job. And you?

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

hamsamich · #9 02-14-2007, 01:43 PM

Johnny....I disagree with the basic concept of your post. I don't think what a player does away from the table is relevant when you are measuring their skill as a player. Lots of pros have well documented gambling, drug and other 'life' problems (TJ, Mike M., etc.) but I don't think it counts when you are simply trying to create a list of peope you would LEAST want sitting across from you.
JMO

SplawnDarts · #10 02-14-2007, 02:06 PM

Unger was the best gin player ever, the best tournament poker player ever, and a great if inconsistent cash game player.

Evaluating him on bankroll management or how well he held his drugs is silly. Unless what you really value is being a levelheaded, fiscally conservative cokehead.

BTW, if you ask the the other likely candidates for best player ever (Chip, Doyle, Chan) who they think was the best, they say Stu (or at least did, I suppose they could change their minds).