Help a noob out: pushing in 10+1 when low on chips

[Iq75]

I have recently made a transfer from 1/2 limit 6 max to STT’s. I have searched and read this forum for couple of hours for information on pushing when low on chips.

Let’s say that it’s 4th level and I have 9 bb’s left. At the 16 STT’s that I have played so far usually at this stage there are 4 – 6 players left (although in couple of them the field was significantly larger). I’m CO and it’s folded to me. I have learned so far that the general rule is that if I have less than 10 bb’s I should push or fold. What kind of hands do I push? Is it like:

Any ace
Any pair
Any two T or higher

Or even more?

I know that it is probably not as simple as this and I will keep on studying the subject but I would like to play as good as possible at the same time I study. So all advice would be very much appreciated.

[tigerite]

It depends. Also your game would be a huge amount better if you stopped looking for general rules like this as, honestly, they simply do not exist. Everything is situation and player dependent. Everything! There is no "I have 9BB on the CO on the bubble what do I push". As soon as you stop looking for answers like this, your ROI will go up. I guarantee you.

[Iq75]

[ QUOTE ]
It depends. Also your game would be a huge amount better if you stopped looking for general rules like this as, honestly, they simply do not exist. Everything is situation and player dependent. Everything! There is no "I have 9BB on the CO on the bubble what do I push". As soon as you stop looking for answers like this, your ROI will go up. I guarantee you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I know that it depends on a lot of factors, but it's good to know that you do not have preflop charts like there is in limit, so that i do not waste my time looking for them. FWIW those charts in limit are there to just give noobs a general idea how to play, and when players get more experienced they should start to deviate from them in specific situations.

What i really wanted to know is that is my range (any A, any pair any two T or higher)at least somewhat reasonable, so that i dont lose a lot of EV (by pushing WAY WAY WAY too much or too little) whilst learning the basics of STT's.

[tigerite]

Well it's probably not too far off, but you should tend to be quite tight in the CO on the bubble in those situations, as usually there is a big stack waiting to look you up, or a short stack about to bust; also there is the added factor that by folding, there is more chance of two stacks to act getting involved, which of course increases your EV without you having to do anything.

I'd say any ace is almost for sure too loose, unless it's an exceptional circumstance. You probably want to be looking at around top 10-15%. But, as I say, it depends hugely - you should post some situations, it's honestly impossible to say without other stack sizes, how they are playing (or at least some guide) and what your image is on the table.

[Wolfram]

Here are some general rules I follow:

The fewer people that show interest in the pot, the more I'm pushing.

Button is best, SB second, and CO third.

Try to have A9+, A4s+, 44+. Aces are immesurably better than K's, though KQs is pretty solid.

Try raising in waves. After being quiet for a long time, you can probably push 2-3 hands in a row, but then have to slow down again. Keep unpredictability high. You don't want them thinking that you are pushing any two.

Get SngPT (link in the faq) and study the tutorial (it's free)

Take all this with a grain of salt because I'm just a noob (albeit a winning noob, but that can change).

[tigerite]

"Button is best, SB second, and CO third."

Sorry that's just wrong, for sure, you can always push a wider range from the SB than on the button. Also you're pushing through one person not two..

Also the best thing is just to only push when it's +$EV to do so [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Never mind this unpredictability thing, although sometimes it's ok to fold your sb to bb at 15/30 or 25/50 if you think he'll be around a while and to keep him sweet, but honestly it tends to make naff all difference.

[Iq75]

So far I have been very tight in the bubble, I think too tight. I think that I can start stealing a little bit more but since I have no experience, I should not get carried away too much. Maybe I can use something like any pair, Axs, A7+, KT+ and QJ+. And of course deviate from these all the time. I can add more hands in the bubble if:

a) I’m on the button or SB
b) The rest of the field is very, very tight (not uncommon in 10+1) in the bubble
c) I’m very low on chips
d) I have tight table image
e) The players yet to act (or most of them) have so few chips that loosing to my all-in would make there chip position uncomfortable, but enough chips that they are not totally desperate.

But I will have to push less hands in the bubble:
a) if somebody is going to blinded out soon
b) I’m further away from the button
c) The rest of the field is loose
d) I have loose table image
e) The players yet to act (or most of them) have so many chips that they are looking for take me out
f) The players yet to act (or most of them) are totally desperate.


Did I get these right? Are there anymore factors that I should be aware of when I’m deciding whether to push or not?

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
"Button is best, SB second, and CO third."

Sorry that's just wrong, for sure, you can always push a wider range from the SB than on the button. Also you're pushing through one person not two..


[/ QUOTE ]

You're probably right, but let me give a reason for why I thought that the button is best. First of, you gain more if they fold. Second, yes there is one more caller but SB range is usually extremly tight because he has to worry if BB will go over the top or not. Third, when you are SB and it is a signifigant portion of your stack, then it looks more desperate, and you are more likely to get a call.

Most of these reasons are not scientific, but more based on feel. And all of them only apply when you are the small(est) stack.

Now please correct me on all accounts. Might fix a leak or two [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Also, I truly believe that pushing every single +EV decision is not correct, since you will open up their calling ranges too much. You have to back off once in a while, try to go with the flow.

[Iq75]

[ QUOTE ]
Try to have A9+, A4s+, 44+. Aces are immesurably better than K's, though KQs is pretty solid.


[/ QUOTE ]

Is there that much of a difference in pushing A4s, but not A3s? And 44 but not 33?

And are you not pushing any other K hands than KK/KQs and no Q hands (exept of course QQ)?

Perhaps i should be a litle more conservative than i originally thought in my pushes for starters and add more hands later, because i have like no idea what i'm doing.

[kevkev60614]

[ QUOTE ]
First of, you gain more if they fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
You win the BB, the SB, and the antes regarless of where you sit. The fact that the SB used to be yours is irrelevant.

[ QUOTE ]
Second, yes there is one more caller but SB range is usually extremly tight because he has to worry if BB will go over the top or not. Third, when you are SB and it is a signifigant portion of your stack, then it looks more desperate, and you are more likely to get a call.

[/ QUOTE ]
A lot of what you say here is true, but the net result is still off. First off, I think you'd be surprised how little a villain's calling range changeds based on what you say above, particularly at the low limits where players are incapable of considering anything but their own two cards. If you're math-inclined put some hypothetical calling ranges down on paper based on the arguments you gave above. Pushing against one player > pushing against two.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I truly believe that pushing every single +EV decision is not correct, since you will open up their calling ranges too much. You have to back off once in a while, try to go with the flow.

[/ QUOTE ]
Pushing +EV situations doesn't mean "stick to your guns and never adapt," it means determine when it's your action based on all of your knowledge which action has the highest +EV for you, and take it.

To OP: it depends, but you're not WAY WAY WAY off. Keep posting hands.