Very thin river push with flush on paired board multiway pot and ....

[snakekilla88]

From small sample size, SB seems kind of bad while button is a solid regular.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB ($494.80)
Hero ($720.10)
UTG ($208.45)
MP ($1102.25)
CO ($1192.65)
Button ($2052.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $6, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $6, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($24) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($24) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $16.15</font>, UTG calls $16.15, Button calls $16.15, SB calls $16.15.

River: ($88.60) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $72</font>, UTG folds, Button calls $72, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $144</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $697.95</font>, Button folds, SB calls $328.65 (All-In).

My thoughts:
Flop: I could of raised flop, but being OOP here with this many opponents can kind of suck when I dont even have nut flush draw.
Turn: I should of bet closer to pot for sure. I realize its a pretty big mistake here. The pot was closer to $20 though since these hand historys dont take out rake.
River: Not sure what to make of all those turn calls! Button is UnderRated, and he never has a boat here especially how long it took him to call. I think SB would raise two pair on turn so I am banking on fact he stacks off with a nine here especially given read hes not v good.

WHat do you guys think? Any flaws in my logic?

[king_of_drafts]

I agree with checking flop. Yeah, bet more on turn. Your river shove is a rather decisive judgment about SB given that you are putting in your entire stack. I think you have to just call. This is a very dangerous spot to "bank" on him stacking off like a moron.

[Mench]

I think this is superthin and you would have had to see villain stack off lightly in your sample to feel comfortable about this. I have pulled this versus villains who I have assigned a similar read (kinda bad, might stack off worse) and usually get shown a better hand. Id feel better if we had the Nut Flush also, since this is often a donk with the Nut flush trying to squeak out value.

[chardy999]

Donk central. Only call river. This is closer to a fold than it is a shove.

[MYNAMEIZGREG]

This is closer to a fold than a shove.

EDIT: LOL just saw that above me

[mrpinkmcpink]

Given you're small sample size on villain, you possibly can't assume that he would have raised two pair on the turn. I think just call the river.

[ABCofpoker]

I Obviously agree with your pre-flop play, and i agree with your flop play. I think you could have led out, but with so many people in the pot i dont really think its a big deal either way. On the turn i think your bet is fine, especially given that all three other players called. I dont think a slightly larger bet changes much.

As far as the River, this is my take, and i would say i tend to play a little more conservatively, so take that as you will:

I like your bet of $72. No surpise there. There is one Call and then a min-raise of $72 into a pot that is by now $305 (giving you something like 4:1 to call). Seems to me he is begging you to call/raise. without a very solid read, i can't assume he is bad enough to think he is getting you off a hand with such a small raise.
In addition to that, more simply, on the river there is (roughly) an 85% pot size bet, a call, then a raise... Of course he could just have trip nines (which is about all your beating by now), but how often is that the case in a multiway pot like this, when its obvious that SOMEONE (you) has at least a flush?

Lastly, Even if your mostly sure what he has, which makes a call to his river raise more then OK, why raise on the river? <font color="red"> </font> IF <font color="black"> </font> you are right about him only having trip nines, can you not see him folding his trip 9's enough (in a river that is bet...raised...then reraised all-in for the rest of his stack)to make this a -EV play? (since the rest of the likely options beat you)

I personally would wait for a better spot to take this guy.


As another side note, in a 4 way pot, why do you think it is obvious he would bet out or raise with two pair when he is first to act with a flush on the board. It would make more sense to me to check call with two pair on this board in this position, as to not unnecessarily balloon a pot that i may already be hugely behind, and re-evaluate on the river.


ALSO, this is my first post....be nice. haha

[Law Player]

[ QUOTE ]
Donk central. Only call river. This is closer to a fold than it is a shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed

[Melchiades]

To thin. I'd call.

[34TheTruth34]

my pain problem with putting the villain on a hand is that I just don't see how he wouldn't have put more action in somewhere OOP in a multiway pot on a coordinated board if he had a hand that could improve to beat yours prior to the river.

I think his play is consistent with a hand you beat, namely either a small flush or trip 9s. If he has a full house, I think he pretty much had to have played the hand horribly, no matter what his cards are. Also, I think that if you lost, he is more likely to have had K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] than a full house.

Although I like your thought process on the hand and the way you played it, I'd probably just call in the heat of battle fearing a hand that beats me.