3/6 - KK on dryish board against turn min-action

[Majik]

This is a hand from a friend of mine, so I didn't play it but I'm a bit interested to hear from you guys what you would have done on the different streets anyhow.

The opp in this case, dannyt111111, is supposedly 35/12/1.8.
Haven't gone out of line, according to my friend and seems generally a bit fishy from what I understand.

So, what's your turn action here? And what is your intention for the rest of the hand?


Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 4: dannyt111111 ( $1112.42 )
Seat 5: Hero ( $625.35 )
Seat 1: XX ( $465.59 )
Seat 3: XX ( $497.65 )
Seat 2: XX ( $230.10 )
Seat 6: XX ( $1142.26 )
dannyt111111 posts small blind [ $3 ].
Hero posts big blind [ $6 ].

Holecards:
Dealt to Hero [ K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
XX folds
XX folds
XX folds
XX folds
CALL dannyt111111, $3
RAISE Hero , $16
CALL dannyt111111, $16

Flop: (Pot: $44)
[ 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ]
dannyt111111 checks
BET Hero , $36
CALL dannyt111111, $36

Turn: (Pot: $116)
[ 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ]
dannyt111111 checks
BET Hero , $84
RAISE dannyt111111, $174
Hero

[Psy_Mike]

Against dannyt I would push this turn. He is able to make some very questionable plays and he will do this with a flush draw and a straight draw and throw in a few AJ, KJ, QJ, J9 type hands. I know that dannyt will be making some calls with flush/straight draws here and spretty much every jack I mentioned, so I'm looking to get my money in.

If you call and the river is a diamond or a straight card (not a K obviously) and he pushes you have a tricky situation at hand.

I think you're ahead a lot here, and he will be calling a push with a lot of hands that you have beat.

Against a solid opp I would probably call the turn re-evaluate the river. I have danny as 35/14/2.3 for the record.

[king_of_drafts]

Call, call pretty much everything on river 'cept maybe when a diamond falls.

[Majik]

Ok, he excluded a turn shove with the reasoning that he wouldn't get any value out of bluffs and he would not get called by worse hands. Would rather fold the turn than shove the turn. I agree that a turn call is a better line than shoving, but to fold the turn rather than shoving against a fishy opp is obviously nitty, in my opinion.

His intented line was to call the turn and fold to a river push if not a 3 or a K came on river.

Thoughts?

[nathanielt]

If he's beat on the turn with a J933 board, how would another 3 help? If he has a 3, he has quads, if he has a boat already he still has a bigger one. If he's as willing to call with a draw or a J here as said above, I'd shove. If not, I'd call hoping to snap off a river bluff.

[Psy_Mike]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, he excluded a turn shove with the reasoning that he wouldn't get any value out of bluffs and he would not get called by worse hands. Would rather fold the turn than shove the turn. I agree that a turn call is a better line than shoving, but to fold the turn rather than shoving against a fishy opp is obviously nitty, in my opinion.

His intented line was to call the turn and fold to a river push if not a 3 or a K came on river.

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Excluding a turn shove without any consideration to who your opponent is, is stupid. What seperates a tag grinder from a creative lag/tag is largely the fact that a tag grinder will often find himself making less tailor made moves.

The reason I think a push is good against this opponent is because it should be fairly evident to you if you've payed attention to the tables that he calls down waay too lightly. You will be called by a LOT of hands if you push this as I said earlier. The problem you will face on the river is that he is often going to push first in to act. You don't really want to see any diamond, a J, 9, A and maybe not even a Q or T. His flop call really doesn't mean much, he will be floating you a lot on this flop since it's likely to have missed both of you.

And it makes no sense for him to argue that by shoving he won't get value out of bluffs. Please take a moment and explain to me how he will get value out of a bluff by calling with the intention of folding a river push. If you call the turn you need to call a river push if it's fairly blank.