$50 NL. Flopped Set against tag, facing resistance.

FearNoArt · #1 02-11-2007, 09:21 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($27.35)
SB ($35.95)
BB ($45.75)
UTG ($17.20)
UTG+1 ($8.70)
MP1 ($48.25)
MP2 ($59.80)
Hero ($52.90)
CO ($60.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, 3 folds, BB checks.

Flop: ($2.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 bets $2.5, MP2 folds, Hero raises to $6, BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 raises to $9.5, Hero calls $3.50.

Turn: ($21.75) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets $11.5 Hero ?

Villain is 10/5/4, 127 hands, and has done nothing noticeable, other than being aggressive post flop, my image is TAG. Should I be pushing this or folding ? Was my post flop play alright ?

raistlinx · #2 02-11-2007, 09:34 PM

I'm stacking off here. If he has TT or 66 so be it.

playah8er · #3 02-11-2007, 09:36 PM

i play small pairs to get all in when i flop sets. Not sure why you play them. I dont understand the flop play...if you think you're behind on the flop why did you call his reraise. Nothing beating you is giving up and you arent getting to showdown for less than your stack anyway.

Berge20 · #4 02-11-2007, 09:56 PM

I'm not really ever one to advocate folding a set, but lets put villian on a range here.

Limped in from MP after a MP limper in front. Probably not AK/AQ/JJ+ right?

To me, that means villian isn't likely to be overplaying a big overpair. What other types of hands would villian bet-mini 3-bet?

A 10/5/2 villian doesn't have T2/T6/62 ever, suited or otherwise.

Someone tell me what else he's got here enough of the time to justify stacking off? Explain it please...

Sure, maybe a fancy played AA/KK every now and again...but enough to cover what we need here? I don't think so.

raistlinx · #5 02-11-2007, 11:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not really ever one to advocate folding a set, but lets put villian on a range here.

Limped in from MP after a MP limper in front. Probably not AK/AQ/JJ+ right?

To me, that means villian isn't likely to be overplaying a big overpair. What other types of hands would villian bet-mini 3-bet?

A 10/5/2 villian doesn't have T2/T6/62 ever, suited or otherwise.

Someone tell me what else he's got here enough of the time to justify stacking off? Explain it please...

Sure, maybe a fancy played AA/KK every now and again...but enough to cover what we need here? I don't think so.

[/ QUOTE ]

hmmm... I didn't really pay attention to the stats until I read this... maybe you are right. I don't know that I can get away from it though.

Jurrr · #6 02-12-2007, 02:28 PM

Villain may have 7d8d*1, 8d9d*1 here some of the time. TT*3, 66*3 other times. AA*6/KK*6/QQ*3 here rarely and QQ now beats us.

I'd discount AA/KK/QQ/7d8d/8d9d quite a bit here; against a donk I stack off here every time but if you think the villain is good then I don't mind a fold at all.

FearNoArt · #7 02-13-2007, 12:46 AM

Well Berge and Juu are bang on in their reads. I pushed on the turn after using my time bank, and all I could think was, he has to have a set, I couldn't put him on any other hand where he'd play this like he did. Unfortunately the credo of "don't fold any set" overrode my read and gut feeling so I pushed and he had 66. Next time I go with my read and gut. Thanks for the feedback to all who replied.

kurto · #8 02-13-2007, 01:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well Berge and Juu are bang on in their reads. I pushed on the turn after using my time bank, and all I could think was, he has to have a set, I couldn't put him on any other hand where he'd play this like he did. Unfortunately the credo of "don't fold any set" overrode my read and gut feeling so I pushed and he had 66. Next time I go with my read and gut. Thanks for the feedback to all who replied.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 2+2 is sometimes overly focused on numbers and mantras (never fold KK preflop... never fold a set) and doesn't advocate enough about reads.

I think they are OFTEN right. Though as you move up, you'll read some high stakes threads where people advocate laying down bottom sets and such.

And many people listen to their gut.

bottomset · #9 02-13-2007, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well Berge and Juu are bang on in their reads. I pushed on the turn after using my time bank, and all I could think was, he has to have a set, I couldn't put him on any other hand where he'd play this like he did. Unfortunately the credo of "don't fold any set" overrode my read and gut feeling so I pushed and he had 66. Next time I go with my read and gut. Thanks for the feedback to all who replied.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think 2+2 is sometimes overly focused on numbers and mantras (never fold KK preflop... never fold a set) and doesn't advocate enough about reads.

I think they are OFTEN right. Though as you move up, you'll read some high stakes threads where people advocate laying down bottom sets and such.

And many people listen to their gut.

[/ QUOTE ]

from what I've seen in High stakes hands, the only time they fold sets are when its very deep, these low limits never play deep

anyway the first flop raise is way too small

kurto · #10 02-13-2007, 03:24 PM

I was reading a thread just last week where they were like, "so and so would never raise here without a set... fold"

Some people were like, "you have a set... you can't fold."

But the people who suggested fold weren't shouted down. A fold was given more serious consideration.

I agree that against most players, you can hardly ever fold a set. I am only suggesting that there are times when the read should overcome the standard play. Even at these stakes with 100bb.

There are players who know on certain flops you're only doing a certain play with a certain hand and they're only playing back with a certain hand. etc. etc.