Pretty Simple Problem, How Much to CR (Live 10-25 bottom set)

[ceczar]

live 10-25, 10 handed. little background: game had been running for 4 hours or so with mostly the same players. i had just lost a 7k pot to a 2outer on the river the previous hand, so people might perceive me as possibly steaming, and that's why i have a shorter stack than average at the table. i had shown a big bluff earlier in the night, but hadn't gotten out of line besides that. villain in the hand is dlpnyc21, and there is at least a decent amount of mutual respect for each others play.

[because i was recovering from the previous hand, i don't remember the exact preflop action, but i'm pretty confident about how much money was in there once we got to the flop, so lets just assume it went down this way]

Hero: in BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($4500, villain covers)
UTG limps, MP limps, Button raises to $200, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

Villain had been pretty active in LP preflop, and his range here is everything down to suited gappers.

Flop: ($1010) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
checks to PFR, who bets $700, Hero raises to ???

pretty simple question, if you assume you raise here, how much are you raising to? my stack size makes a pot raise (to 3100 with 1300 left) and a push (raising a 700 bet to 4400) a bit awkward IMO.

(as to why i didn't lead here, the way the table was playing a lead from the blinds into the field would have been wierd enough that a big ace wouldn't have raised, though a big ace could call a CR)

[Stinger88]

raise to 2k and do it with 44 sometimes too

[TheWorstPlayer]

i like 1400 or push

[Moonshine]

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i like 1400 or push

[/ QUOTE ]

i think 1400 and 2k prob get called by pretty much the same range but we're not letting him draw for as good a price with 2k and we're getting it in easier on the turn if just called

[TheWorstPlayer]

1400 looks like more BS, though. 2K is sooooo transparent. and even at 1400 you have less than a PSB left on the turn if he calls. and you cant worry about draws this shallow, you just want to get it all in.

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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1400 looks like more BS, though. 2K is sooooo transparent. and even at 1400 you have less than a PSB left on the turn if he calls. and you cant worry about draws this shallow, you just want to get it all in.

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are you really trying to say that a min-checkraise represents a monster MORE than a bigger c/r? that's crazy. at least raising to 2k it could seem that you're trying to move him off of something whereas people min-raise because nobody folds to min-raises.

[LyinKing]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
1400 looks like more BS, though. 2K is sooooo transparent. and even at 1400 you have less than a PSB left on the turn if he calls. and you cant worry about draws this shallow, you just want to get it all in.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you really trying to say that a min-checkraise represents a monster MORE than a bigger c/r? that's crazy. at least raising to 2k it could seem that you're trying to move him off of something whereas people min-raise because nobody folds to min-raises.

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FF, didn't you just answer your own question? Wouldn't a min-CR in fact represent a monster hand because, as you say, no one will fold to it?

[legend42]

Do you have any tilt history with villain? Like could you make a shove seem like a "screw it" type steam push with 6c5c (or anything else that AQ is ahead of)?

Absent that, I like making it $2K and then getting the rest in on any turn.

[ceczar]

i did in fact raise to 2k, and it's not really important what happened after that. wanted to make sure my raise didn't come across as an obviously retarded play.

as far as charging the draws, if we simplify and assume i will push any turn (which is pretty close to true, and villain would probably know that), villain stands to win 1700+4300=6000 if he hits on the turn. when he hits i have 23% equity or so, so his equity when he hits is ~4600. 8 cards out of 45 make him a nonpairing flush, so he has a little more than 800 in equity in the hand. if he's going to call 2000 but not 2200, then i obviously gain 500 by making the smaller raise.

but i'm not going to make much (relatively) from exploiting bad calls with draws. the important thing i guess is getting big aces to put money in drawing very slim.

since he's much more likely to have a big ace than clubs, and the amount of equity i gain from him calling a raise dwarfs what i gain from getting a draw to incorrectly call, the only thing i should care about is what size raise makes him most likely to call (and then call again on the river).

in hindsight, i think a smaller raise to 1700 or so (which might make him think i'm leaving enough for a second barrel) or a push (which looks relatively more like a draw than a set compared to a 2k raise) would be the best.

[Moonshine]

[ QUOTE ]
but i'm not going to make much (relatively) from exploiting bad calls with draws. the important thing i guess is getting big aces to put money in drawing very slim.

since he's much more likely to have a big ace than clubs, and the amount of equity i gain from him calling a raise dwarfs what i gain from getting a draw to incorrectly call, the only thing i should care about is what size raise makes him most likely to call (and then call again on the river).



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that's actually a really good point. i stand corrected i guess.

glad we both learned something here