AQo vs. LAG and LP

CrMenace · #1 02-07-2007, 01:01 PM

SB was very laggy, especially pf -- he had raised 5 of the 15 hands we had played against each other so far.
Button was loose and somewhat passive 50/11/1 over 44 hands 

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 5 folds, Button calls, SB 3-bets, 1 fold, Hero caps, Button calls, SB calls.

 As laggy as SB has been, I figured to be way ahead of his range with AQo. Hence the cap. 

Flop: (13 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

 I raised as I thought I was somewhat likely to be ahead -- and I wanted to lose the Button. Once button raised, I knew I was in bad shape. Still - getting 21:1, I figured I needed to call. 

Turn: (11 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

 This is probably the street worthy of the most debate. I figured the flop raise was Jx or a FD often enough that I might very likely be ahead here. 

River: (20 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB raises (0.375 BB all-in) , Hero calls, Button calls.

 SB raise is clearly a stack-off, so I call 1.4 BB the same as 1BB 

Final Pot: 24.12 BB

davelin · #2 02-07-2007, 01:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
SB was very laggy, especially pf -- he had raised 5 of the 15 hands we had played against each other so far

[/ QUOTE ]

Sample size. You'd need more specific information before making a statement like this just purely on stats.

Big Folder · #3 02-07-2007, 01:11 PM

give button's passivity you are probably way behind here. The pot is enormous, but I dont think calling down is ok here.

I think the turn raise was fine. You improved to top pair and a raise will be for value if you are ahead. If you are behind a passive player might simply call your raise and you can still draw to two pair or better. When he raises you can consider a fold. He likely has a set. May sound crazy but what about raise/folding the turn?

At the least, I think a turn call and a c/f the river would be another line. You are likely way behind here.

CrMenace · #4 02-07-2007, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB was very laggy, especially pf -- he had raised 5 of the 15 hands we had played against each other so far

[/ QUOTE ]

Sample size. You'd need more specific information before making a statement like this just purely on stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many times have you raised pf 5 times in 1.5 orbits in full ring?

Sure, there is a chance they are all strong hands, but the higher likelihood is that villain is laggy.

You and I have discussed sample sizes before. For a more interesting discussion, pretend my sample size was large enough. Now what would you do?

CrMenace · #5 02-07-2007, 01:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
give button's passivity you are probably way behind here. The pot is enormous, but I dont think calling down is ok here.

I think the turn raise was fine. You improved to top pair and a raise will be for value if you are ahead. If you are behind a passive player might simply call your raise and you can still draw to two pair or better. When he raises you can consider a fold. He likely has a set. May sound crazy but what about raise/folding the turn?

At the least, I think a turn call and a c/f the river would be another line. You are likely way behind here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually considered c/r/f here. Perhaps a b/f is the better strategy.

Once I call the turn, I don't think I'm laying down the river.

NoEscape · #6 02-07-2007, 02:21 PM

call the three-bet pf
call the flop bet
calling the turn three-bet is good
calling the river is ok

nerdking · #7 02-07-2007, 02:28 PM

Grunch

even with our position I think we just call the 3bet PF. Were it AQs we definitely cap.

Flop: decent raise to try and get the button out of the picture. I agree with your thinking. We look better heads up if we catch. Button's three bet is distressing.

Turn: We need to know if SB is going to checkraise here. If he's prone to CRing then we check through, if not then we donk this turn. Path one where SB CRs gives us info and a decent chance at getting way from the hand. Path two means we only pay 2BB instead of our three.

River is standard.

Todd · #8 02-07-2007, 02:32 PM

I dont think I would ever cap with AQo, even if I was against a maniac.

On the flop, heads up, I may raise, but vs. 2 or more, I call. You have overs and no pr. At best you have 6 outs.

If button raises behind, I call one back to me, if SB caps, I am gone. All you have is over cards.

ON Turn, I think you like your Qs, but when button goes to war, you ahve to slo down. Buttons 3 bet should mean that he is ahead. You may have 5 outs, you may have none.

Remember that his isnt a pissing contest, and sometimes when they 3 bet the flop and bet reraise the turn, they have a real hand!

On the river, you should only call if you hit a Q or A, and even then you will probably lose.

Todd

davelin · #9 02-07-2007, 03:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
SB was very laggy, especially pf -- he had raised 5 of the 15 hands we had played against each other so far

[/ QUOTE ]

Sample size. You'd need more specific information before making a statement like this just purely on stats.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many times have you raised pf 5 times in 1.5 orbits in full ring?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously? Many times.

threads13 · #10 02-07-2007, 03:58 PM

I agree with Dave's comments about the laggy read. Now I am going to pick on the read on as the other as LP. Loose, sure. I don't think I would call this guy passive with a 11% PFR% and a 1 on AF. I am sure you know how AF can be misleading when someone plays a lot of hands.

If you didn't have the limper in there, I would be more ok with the cap.

I don't see much of a problem with the rest. I am thinking the button has something like a good Jx, QJ for two-pair, or maybe JJ(discounted).