Stealing blinds

[Moster]

I've read about defending and stealing blinds.
Can anyone explain what it means?

I *think* i know, but would like to have it explained to me like I'm 12 (which I am, don't tell anyone)

[TaoTe]

Stealing the blinds is betting before the flop with a hand you don't really want action on. Stealing blinds is much more important in tournament play than in ring games. It's often done from late or middle position once everyone has folded to you. It's often done later in tourneys when the blinds and antes are larger compared to chip stacks. In tournaments, some people will raise on the button whenever it's folded to them to steal the blinds. Consequently, some people will shove all their chips in whenever someone does this. That would be known as defending your blind. For example, if the cutoff player raises to 3x the BB a pot size raise should usually end the hand if the player didnt have a real hand. If the BB does this it's know as defending the blind. Many people get carried away with this and end up going broke because they don't ever believe the button can pick up a hand.

Are you really 12?

[brianjb]

While we're on the subject, what frequency and what strategy do you recommend for defending your blinds? I've read everything from don't be a player who constantly defends their blinds to don't be a player who never defends their blinds to just don't worry about it.

I've been in games where you get players who almost constantly try to steal the blinds in late position. But at the same time I don't like throwing good chips after bad on a sub-par hand, especially when I'm going to be first or second to act for the rest of the hand.

[TaoTe]

It depends, of course and I can't give you a good percentage of times when to do it and not to. Basically, if you think ace high or king high is good then hold on like a mo'fo. Try posting this question on the MTT of STT board, you'll get much better answers.

[Pov]

Blind stealing and defense is a fairly critical aspect of tighter, more aggressive games and there is a lot involved in mastering it. The concepts are highly useful in short handed games as well. Basically, once it folds down to the last few positions, *someone* has to win so you don't really need much of a hand, particularly against blinds who give up too much. Between that and having position for the rest of the hand if they do choose to play with you, it can be quite profitable, but requires a lot of "feel". Likewise in defense you're usually getting good pot odds to play against the weak sort of hands that might try to steal against you so you'll frequently defend as well.

Defending is something I do rather aggressively. First because I can push around a lot of would-be stealers and second because I find that aggressively confronting them tends to tighten them back up and make them more predictable. I could easily check-raise the flop and lead the turn with any pair and sometimes with nothing but a King or an inside straight draw. Just so long as my "feel" says my opponent missed I could bet or raise with anything. The thing is, the difference between doing this well and just throwing away chips is really difficult to explain. If you learn to do it well it can make a big difference to your hourly rate in certain types of games.

As a beginner you should probably avoid tables in which this occurs frequently and when it does occur you should probably play pretty tightly, but play very strongly when you make a hand or think your oppoent may have missed. With just two people in the pot you don't need nearly as much of a hand to win and few hands will have odds to call down unless they have a good chance of already being best.

To give you a little idea, my VPIP is typically in the 18-19% range, but if it folds to me I'll frequently attempt to steal over 30% of the time. If you only call with your better hands and fail to re-raise me with them I am practically guaranteed to show a decent profit. However, it's even worse if you call and then let me take the pot from you on the flop or the turn when you don't connect with the board (which will be frequently). You need to win some pots when you miss and to get some bets in there when you hit. Most beginning and many reasonably experienced players are not comfortable with this which is what makes it so great if you can do it well.

[ottsville]

Blind stealing is a great way to add to your winrate. The further off the button you are, the riskier it gets, but the more likely people are to "respect" your preflop raise as legitimate and fold their weak hands. It's also more likely that someone will actually have a hand and call(or re-raise).

I had posted the other day about a game in which I played 77 from early position with a raise to fold the table(this is not reccomended - it was a very situation specific play that worked because I paid close attention to the way the table played). How good of a hand you need depends on the weakness of the players in the blinds and the strength of their hands. I just stole the blinds from one off the button with 92o this morning, but only because I knew that the players were very timid. Keep in mind, that you will get caught eventually. As many people will say, "If you're not getting caught, your not doing it enough."

Defending blinds is a somewhat riskier proposition. I see lots of people defend blinds with nothing, just because they don't want to get pushed around. They'll re-raise pre-flop and it will end up 4-bet. Then they will bet out the flop and re-raise the raiser. I like the preflop re-raise for defense, but I have to be pretty sure that the raiser is attempting to steal or I need to have somewhat of a hand. Pov's check-raise on the flop with a bet out on the turn is another good way of doing it.

[Pov]

[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind, that you will get caught eventually. As many people will say, "If you're not getting caught, your not doing it enough."


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this whole-heartedly. It also applies to bluffing frequency. If you're not getting caught you're not doing it enough. Clearly if you're frequently getting caught that is another matter.

[ QUOTE ]

Defending blinds is a somewhat riskier proposition. I see lots of people defend blinds with nothing, just because they don't want to get pushed around. They'll re-raise pre-flop and it will end up 4-bet. Then they will bet out the flop and re-raise the raiser. I like the preflop re-raise for defense, but I have to be pretty sure that the raiser is attempting to steal or I need to have somewhat of a hand. Pov's check-raise on the flop with a bet out on the turn is another good way of doing it.

[/ QUOTE ]

The situation you warn against is a classic example of blind defense taken much too far. I try to have something in my hand and if I did re-raise from the blind and got 4-bet I would definitely play much more conservatively. When it gets capped your opponent is clearly committed to the hand. Aggression from here out should only be for value when your hand hits. You *may* be able to bluff at an Ace if your opponent would cap with KK or QQ or JJ, but not AQ or AJ, but we're back into "feel" territory. 3-betting the flop would require my hand hit the flop very strongly in which case I would be inclined to check raise the turn instead.

Switching gears, the goal of the flop check-raise is to convince the guy stealing with A8 that you hit that T on the board (whether you did or not). Now if he doesn't hit on the turn it's almost impossible for him to call with just Ace high or even a hand like 99. If you can't play aggressively enough to get your opponent to fold his hand when it is better than yours some of the time then clearly you need to be more selective in the hands you defend with. Still, you're getting 3.5:1 on a call. If your opponent accidently shows his hand and it's AKs your T8o is getting ample odds to call as only a 2:1 dog assuming you can play it well.

[TaoTe]

Was the OP's post for tourney or cash play? I didn't see if it was.

[MagicMan08]

bump, very informative thread...poker is a crazy game

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
While we're on the subject, what frequency and what strategy do you recommend for defending your blinds?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not to sound glib, in a cash game the first strategy you should consider is simply changing tables/games. If you're called on to defend very often, there are probably better games out there at most low limits. Obviously in a tournament you can't choose who's at your table so you have to use your best judgment how to defend.

HEPFAP has some good stuff on this topic for LHE, but my goal is to play in soft enough games that I don't have to use it very often.