(1/2) KK vs LAG on Ace flop...

BHokie1 · #1 02-06-2007, 04:40 PM

PF my read is he's raising calling my raise with most Aces, broadways and pairs.

i think he's betting the ace flop with or without an ace, and certainly with a Q.

Given that do you raise the flop?

If so do you fire the turn, I really don't want a c/r here.

Should I just treat this as WAWB and call down?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, MP3 raises, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 2 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

Turn: (5.75 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets, MP3 calls.

River: (7.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

mmctrab · #2 02-06-2007, 04:52 PM

*grunch*

I would play it as WA/WB. As played, I'd check behind on the turn, and bet/fold the river.

thisguydan · #3 02-06-2007, 04:55 PM

Def. looks like a WAWB situation.

PreFlop- Right of course.

Flop- Calling looks like the worst option here. Raising or Folding both seem much better. Calling just lets him lead out again on the Turn while you still don't know where you're at. A Raise might buy a Free Card on the turn as it did. Folding doesn't seem bad here either.

It would depend on my read of the guy. Would he lead out into an AQ6 flop after being re-raised before the flop with something like JJ, 1010? Would he bet middle pair like KQ?

I think a raise on the flop is very good. You take the lead in position, which might buy a free card on the Turn, and you know you're behind if you're re-raised and can just fold.

On the turn, I'd check behind and then hopefully check or call the River to play it cautiously against an Ace.

I'm not in love with my hand at any point here but I think I call down for 1 bet on the River anyways if he led.

tyler_cracker · #4 02-06-2007, 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would play it as WA/WB.

[/ QUOTE ]

bozlax · #5 02-06-2007, 05:58 PM

(Why do I look at these?)

[ QUOTE ]
PF my read is he's raising calling my raise with most Aces, broadways and pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not much of a LAG.

[ QUOTE ]
Should I just treat this as WAWB and call down?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, we were due for a bout of WA/WB infection. I'll get the antibiotics.

If this guy raises light preflop, as your title implies but your hand-read doesn't, then you're nowhere near as likely behind as ahead. So in order to treat this as WA/WB, you need a read as to how he plays postflop. Will he shutdown to flop aggression? Is he the type to pull a turn bluff-c/r? Are you fairly certain he'll keep betting with atc after he bets the flop if you don't play back at him?

If you can't answer these questions, then I think the hand as played is perfect.

BHokie1 · #6 02-06-2007, 06:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
(Why do I look at these?)

[ QUOTE ]
PF my read is he's raising calling my raise with most Aces, broadways and pairs.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not much of a LAG.

[ QUOTE ]
Should I just treat this as WAWB and call down?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah, we were due for a bout of WA/WB infection. I'll get the antibiotics.

If this guy raises light preflop, as your title implies but your hand-read doesn't, then you're nowhere near as likely behind as ahead. So in order to treat this as WA/WB, you need a read as to how he plays postflop. Will he shutdown to flop aggression? Is he the type to pull a turn bluff-c/r? Are you fairly certain he'll keep betting with atc after he bets the flop if you don't play back at him?

If you can't answer these questions, then I think the hand as played is perfect.

[/ QUOTE ]

He's not a super LAG, but he's looser than I am, but I'm still learning so I might be a bit of a nit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] I'm not raising Axo from his position or 44, and I'm pretty sure he is.

I think he leads an AQ flop with most anything he raised with after being re-raised preflop. I think he'd c/c c/r turn with a strong hand, but it doesn't mean he wouldn't lead a flop with a strong hand.

I think if I don't play back at him he'll bet again on the turn, I'm not sure about the river.

I don't think he c/r bluffs the turn, but I do think he folds to a turn bet without a ace or queen or a set.

He's aggressive post flop and likes to take the lead in the hand, I won't get him off Ax, but I think Qx pays me off (well if the 2nd Q doesn't fall on the river).

bozlax · #7 02-06-2007, 06:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He's not a super LAG, but he's looser than I am, but I'm still learning so I might be a bit of a nit [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I do think he leads an AQ flop with most anything he raised with after being re-raised preflop. I do think he c/c c/r turn with a strong hand, rather leads, but it doesn't mean he wouldn't lead a strong hand.

I do think if I don't play back at him he'll bet again on the turn, I'm not sure about the river.

I don't think he c/r bluffs the turn, but I do think he folds to a turn bet without a ace or queen or a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

None of this seems to make a WA/WB line particularly appropriate. Whether you should bet the turn or check behind to induce a bluff is another question, but as you're uncertain about his river action, betting is your best, uh, bet.

cold_cash · #8 02-06-2007, 08:30 PM

The flop raise vexes me.

00Snitch · #9 02-06-2007, 11:53 PM

that is exactly how i play these hands. i dont know if it is right. i dont know why i bother responding like this.

i feel lost in these hands because it feels like there are no hands he could play this way that we are infront of. i raise the flop and bet the turn simply because i want to show this down (i fold to a turn c/r which feels weak).

like seriously, what are you ahead of. another pokcet pair? would he lead that flop after you 3-bet him with a PP that you beat? surely he wont call one on the turn if he did lead the flop and call your flop raise.

come on, what could he have? a retarded KJ? a desperate JJ? KQ? all less likely given that you hold two of the kings. i feel like that is also a big problem here, many of the hands you beat rely on holding a king, two of which you have already. it seems like there are way too many Ax hands that would play like this. in fact, every ace down to like A5 probably.

he should have c/c, c/c, b/f with his A9s. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

cold_cash · #10 02-07-2007, 12:02 AM

This hand shouldn't really be that hard to play, especially in position.

I don't know why we're raising this flop, first of all.

If he checks the turn and you're dying to show down, check it behind him and call a bet one the end. If he's such a spaz that you're worried about being bluffed off the best hand by a turn checkraise, than he's plenty aggressive enough to take a stab at the river if you check the turn through.