1/2 NL FR - KK gets MR pre and takes a qj flop, fold river?

Dommer · #1 02-09-2006, 10:56 AM

My read on villain is not that great, he raises a lot pre but haven't seen TOO many 3 bets. Previously he min raised my AA utg bet with KK and I proceeded to bust him. So in this hand I assume he has AK AA QQ or JJ and MAYBE AQ and that he can get away from a 4bet but it's a very tenuous assumption becuase my read is not great. He's 15/9/3, TAA over 300 hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

MP2 ($358.85)
MP3 ($195.60)
CO ($115.65)
Button ($230.45)
SB ($224.65)
BB ($184.90)
Hero ($218.10)
UTG+1: (Villain) ($246.95)
MP1 ($170.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
Hero raises to $8, UTG+1: (Villain) raises to $16, 7 folds, Hero calls $8.

Flop: ($35) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $15, Hero calls $15.

Hrmmmm, weak bet, seems like a set, could be AA feeling me out, doubt AK plays like this (maybe AKd? I think he'd bet more), or AQ, but maybe

Turn: ($65) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $20, Hero calls $20.

Another incredibly weak bet, is he scared or is he desperately trying to convey weakness? I see no point in raising (the only hand I want to raise against is AKd) and the price is too good to fold so I call. His line still feels like a set to me. I think he must have me on just a pair, maybe AQ or AJ. 

River: ($105) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Villain bets $50, Hero calls $50.

Now the river bet, I can't really imagine what I'm beating, maybe a really strangely played AQ. In my gut I just think its a set though. I nearly fold and then just decide to call for no reason other than I wanted to see what he had. Is there a better way to play this?

PlayaHata · #2 02-09-2006, 11:08 AM

you = calling station ;-)
no offense.
raise all streets, dont check unless trapping. once he bets you RR on every street, if that is your plan. you are playing very weak tight this hand.
get the money in. if he has AA or a set, thats poker.

mayday4379 · #3 02-09-2006, 11:17 AM

Raise the flop. If its a set as you think, better to find out now then on the river after you call an add'l $70.

Dan Bitel · #4 02-09-2006, 11:24 AM

Either lead flop or C/R flop

Dommer · #5 02-09-2006, 11:39 AM

Hrm.... so you all think I should play it more aggressively. Against certain players I would but what hand are you putting him on and that he's going to be calling checkraises etc? I am aggressive normally (around 3) but on this flop I'm not playing his range if I get aggressive. The only hand I'd want to play aggressively against is AKd afaik. If I check raise the flop and he calls what's my move? Check raise and if called then check it down? Continue betting hard and hope he has AQ or AKd?

Dommer · #6 02-09-2006, 11:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop. If its a set as you think, better to find out now then on the river after you call an add'l $70.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise the flop the only hand I see that MIGHT call me down that I beat is AKd, AQ might call once but is probably folding the turn. AA isn't going anywhere but probably isn't going to raise me. Hopefully QQ or JJ puts me all-in in which case it's an easy fold but if they don't I stand to lose a lot more money.

PlayaHata · #7 02-09-2006, 12:10 PM

you have to raise the flop to see where you stand and to take control. I can see villian holding TT, AQdiamonds, AK diamonds, aq aj. i dont see why you think villian is beating you. if i was villian, and held any of those hands i would think i was ahead of you they way you played it. check on the flop looks alot like a whiffed AK.

i dont think CR is a good option, as stated in my last post. like you said, it makes weaker hands fold and better hands call/raise. lead flop, if he raises then you can maybe consider folding, but you would have to be fairly certain villian has set or aces. that check on the flop killed you. it is highly unlikely that an overpair checks that flop, so TPTK or even MPTK might think they are good. once you bet the flop, it will be alot easier to play the rest of the hand.

Jonny · #8 02-09-2006, 01:34 PM

I think you played it fine. Give AK a chance to bluff, and not commit your stack if he has set or AA. I like your line. Everyone saying to raise mistaken.

Dommer · #9 02-09-2006, 01:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
you have to raise the flop to see where you stand and to take control. I can see villian holding TT, AQdiamonds, AK diamonds, aq aj. i dont see why you think villian is beating you. if i was villian, and held any of those hands i would think i was ahead of you they way you played it. check on the flop looks alot like a whiffed AK.

i dont think CR is a good option, as stated in my last post. like you said, it makes weaker hands fold and better hands call/raise. lead flop, if he raises then you can maybe consider folding, but you would have to be fairly certain villian has set or aces. that check on the flop killed you. it is highly unlikely that an overpair checks that flop, so TPTK or even MPTK might think they are good. once you bet the flop, it will be alot easier to play the rest of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not that I 100% think hes beating me, just that I think it's likely, and I also think I won't be getting much out of villain if hes not beating me unless he has AKd or AQd(he's probably going to play those very hard though and not just call down). I sort of like the idea of betting out, hopefully qq or jj or aa reraises and I can get away from it, maybe half pot on each street. But betting all three streets more aggressive than that would seem to be spewing against this villain. It's not the way I play this KK without a read or "ABC", it's what I would do if I know the guy is an idiot. Judging from his stats I gave him the benefit of the doubt and assumed he was decent. Maybe someone can change my mind and convince me to play this aggressively?

Dommer · #10 02-09-2006, 01:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think you played it fine. Give AK a chance to bluff, and not commit your stack if he has set or AA. I like your line. Everyone saying to raise mistaken.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well at least one person agrees with me... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]