Since when is top set a tough hand?

[jkamowitz]

Great 20/40.

everyone limps to me on the button, I limp along with red 88. (thoughts? many think I should raise, some think I should call, no one thinks I should fold)

Family pot.

Flop: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

blinds check, utg who just showed up from a must move bets, 3 callers, and I do what?

What's my line here and on a number of different turns?

[drbk2]

I don't think it really matters what you do preflop here.

Go bat$hit on the flop.

[Entity]

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrraise. I'd usually raise preflop but I don't think limping is much of an error.

Rob

[daveT]

PF, I don't think it really matters, but I am guessing when you say "great," that this means just about every hand is going to showdown, and 88 simply doesn't have large showdown value without flopping a set. You gain a little but add to your variance.

As for post-flop. I think that it is better to jamb-up, ie, get as much dead money chacing you till the river as long as you fill up. I wouldn't want to raise here because I would hate to see a three-bet from UTG, and a cold-call when you may already be behind.

[dcb777]

I agree in this spot. I would usually jam a set in this spot but with UTG to likely 3 bet knocking out opponents is a bad thing in this spot. You will also add a bit of deception if you fill up. If the board pairs on the turn UTG will bet and you might get a couple of people to call in between before you jam it up.

[Josh W]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree in this spot. I would usually jam a set in this spot but with UTG to likely 3 bet knocking out opponents is a bad thing in this spot. You will also add a bit of deception if you fill up. If the board pairs on the turn UTG will bet and you might get a couple of people to call in between before you jam it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that most UTGs are only going to be threebetting hands that have yours beat. Thus, forcing people out doesn't help us. We'd rather have them in.

Just call, and charge the max on the turn if it's safe (non 4, 5, 9, T, spade)

Josh

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I agree in this spot. I would usually jam a set in this spot but with UTG to likely 3 bet knocking out opponents is a bad thing in this spot. You will also add a bit of deception if you fill up. If the board pairs on the turn UTG will bet and you might get a couple of people to call in between before you jam it up.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that most UTGs are only going to be threebetting hands that have yours beat. Thus, forcing people out doesn't help us. We'd rather have them in.

Just call, and charge the max on the turn if it's safe (non 4, 5, 9, T, spade)

Josh

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with just calling is that 5-ways you won't be getting turn raises in often enough unless your hand isn't the best.

Rob

[dcb777]

rob, I wasn't implying that we necessarily had to jam the turn. If the turn came a brick and we had a bet from UTG and a caller I may not jam the turn hoping for the board to pair or a safe river. The reason I would not jam the flop had to do with the probablity that UTG would threebet and knock out callers with worse hands. I would also call a river brick but jam a helpful card. Do you think that we are missing value in this spot on the flop or do you think this is ok given that UTG may likely 3bet the flop in this spot?

[UtzChips]

"Everyone" limps to me on the Button and I have 88. No way am I raising. I am playing this for set value and folding on almost all Flops.

My initial thought was to just call the Flop and so to see if I was right, fired up PokerStove. If you were able to get it down to the best two hands against you on the Flop, your equity is 33.67%. Those hands being Tc9s & AsTc.
Let 5s5c & JcJh tag along and your equity is 34.01%...so much better.
Let those hands plus a made flush: KsQs and your equity is 34.83%.
This is not a raising situation unless you're in a position to trap others for one more bet, i.e, you and the best hand have 1/2 the field on each side of you.

[dcb777]

we have been over the flop what would you advocate?