Maybe a "Had to be there Hand"

[James.]

20/40 live. 8 handed and juuuuicy(not THIS particular hand, but good game nonetheless).

UTG is sort of scared/tight. not horribly weak/tight, but not as aggressive as he should be in some spots. he will jump at the opportunity to bet if he thinks he has the best hand, but he can also release some hands(that i wouldn't)in some close spots. he is smart enough to adjust for bluffs(i.e. calling down with midpair vs. certain LAGgish opponents--me for one), but not too good at taking stabs himself. maybe not much to discuss, but have at it.

UTG raises, folds to me in the CO and i 3bet A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], folds to UTG who 4bets, i call.

Flop(9.5sb): K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

check, check.

Turn(4.7bb): 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

he bets, i call.

River(6.7bb): J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

he bets and i raise planning on folding to a 3bet.

[dcb777]

Will he pay you off with QQ or 10-10 here? What other hands would he 4 bet preflop. KK, AA, JJ all got there. Would he 4 bet with KQ suited? I like a call in this spot given that he 4 bet the flop and checked the flop which seems suspicious. I would expect to either see a monster or a hand that can't call the river raise.

[sublime]

hes getting 9-1 in a 'close' spot against somebody who he has apparently 'adjusted' to....i dont think hes folding AK here and i also dont think he has AK and your bet is just giving his monster an extra BB.

[Entity]

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hes getting 9-1 in a 'close' spot against somebody who he has apparently 'adjusted' to....i dont think hes folding AK here and i also dont think he has AK and your bet is just giving his monster an extra BB.

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I pretty much agree with Mr. Roper. Though generally I'd bet the flop but when I check behind on the flop I wouldn't raise this river.

[James.]

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I'd bet the flop but when I check behind on the flop

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i bet that flop 99% of the time. it usually makes the hand easier/cheaper to play.

edit to add some additional, possibly pertinent info:

i had not seen villain c/r the entire session(5hrs in, i think).

i have seen him raise PF with 88 and AJs in as early as UTG, and 77 opening in LP.

i am noticeably drunk. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[JohnnyHumongous]

Raise the turn, FOLD if 3-bet.

He won't fold any pair, he will call down suspecting a "move" or free showdown raise on your part. Then he calls river because that's what live 20/40 players do. I don't think he will 3-bet AK if that's what he has because he is "scared" and may suspect you have 66/88/AA.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

I can see playing the hand in a straightforward fashion, which means betting when checked to on the flop and calling down if there's some weird check-raise attempt, and I can see being very suspicious of KK/AA and checking the flop and then just getting to showdown, and I can *maybe* see passing up on the bet on the flop but raising the river like you did. But I hate the sequence of the flop check plus the river raise plus the willingness to fold to a river 3-bet. If I'm raising the river I'm calling down a 3-bet and expecting to win fairly often. I don't think you know your opponent well enough to get cutesy like you did.

[James.]

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But I hate the sequence of the flop check plus the river raise plus the willingness to fold to a river 3-bet. If I'm raising the river I'm calling down a 3-bet and expecting to win fairly often.

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you think the flop check will have misrepresented my hand enough to cause him to get that out of line? like i said, he is sort of a scared player and the raise on the end had a couple purposes, but i wouldn't dream he would take it to 3bets on the river without a hand that would beat TPTK. i'm not saying you're wrong, but i would be quite surprised.

and it should be noted, he's not checking KK/AK/AA on that flop hardly ever. probably about as often as i check behind with AK on that board. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

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But I hate the sequence of the flop check plus the river raise plus the willingness to fold to a river 3-bet. If I'm raising the river I'm calling down a 3-bet and expecting to win fairly often.

[/ QUOTE ]

you think the flop check will have misrepresented my hand enough to cause him to get that out of line? like i said, he is sort of a scared player and the raise on the end had a couple purposes, but i wouldn't dream he would take it to 3bets on the river without a hand that would beat TPTK. i'm not saying you're wrong, but i would be quite surprised.

and it should be noted, he's not checking KK/AK/AA on that flop hardly ever. probably about as often as i check behind with AK on that board. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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I think playing your hand in an unpredictable fashion can cause opponents to play their hand in an unpredictable fashion.

[James.]

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I think playing your hand in an unpredictable fashion can cause opponents to play their hand in an unpredictable fashion.

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really? my experience, especially live, is that my opponent simply calls down to see what i would play in such a peculiar manner. that seems like a fairly predictable response. now don't get me wrong, certain spastic reactions can be expected from certain types of opponents as a response to playing a hand in a certain manner, but i guess i haven't stressed how straightforwardly this guy plays. thanks for the input, i really appreciate the analysis.

as an aside i'm using one of your old hand posts for the "Blast from the Past" feature in the Small Stakes Digest February Edition(when i actually finish it, that is). maybe it'll bring back some memories.