Stars 55(1rebuy/1addon) AA multiway on paired flop

[yundmi]

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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t3270)
MP2 (t1595)
MP3 (t2630)
CO (t4585)
Button (t4570)
SB (t2600)
BB (t6595)
UTG (t1690)
UTG+1 (t2065)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t50, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t200</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t200, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls t175, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t150.

Flop: (t850) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets t150</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ???

I'm assuming most people are raising here, if so, please specify raise amount and reasoning behind it. Thank you!

[omaha]

It may just be a weak lead.

I raise pot and fold to a rr.

Pretty much shut down after that, unless i get my A

[yundmi]

[ QUOTE ]
It may just be a weak lead.

I raise pot and fold to a rr.



[/ QUOTE ]

obv that was the first thought that came to mind, but after more thinking, this hand didnt seem so standard. does everyone play it this way? (raise pot/fold to RR) anyone raise less? anyone jus call?

[Bond18]

I make it about 750 to test his little stupid bet, if anyone keeps playing after that your kind of forced to shut down.

[nath]

too many draws, so personally, i'm not folding if i get 3 bet

[shaundeeb]

let's think from vil's perspective He could be doing 1 of 3 things. Leading out with 99 or 10x seeing if he's good, leading out with trips or better with plans on 3bet shoving, or leading a strong draw with plans of 3beting all in.

Now what good is raising here you don't protect yourself from draws as they are shoving over your raise anyway, he folds all 2pair hands, plus there are 2 people still to act at a board that is likely to hit them. So what can we gather from that raising with plans of folding sucks I hate raising and calling as we are often way behind with 2 outs or 70/30. Now you math guys can figure out the % of the time he needs to be on a draw for calling the shove to be correct. But, I rather just call on this flop and keep the pot redic small till things develope and people show the strenghts of their hands behind us as well as infront of us. I often call in this spot and fold to a raise behind me usually, funny thing is when I saw the PF action and that board I immediately thought this is a perfect flop to check and with such a small bet you get to see how everyone reacts by only putting in 150 so call and than let the discussion begin.

[yundmi]

[ QUOTE ]
let's think from vil's perspective He could be doing 1 of 3 things. Leading out with 99 or 10x seeing if he's good, leading out with trips or better with plans on 3bet shoving, or leading a strong draw with plans of 3beting all in.

Now what good is raising here you don't protect yourself from draws as they are shoving over your raise anyway, he folds all 2pair hands, plus there are 2 people still to act at a board that is likely to hit them. So what can we gather from that raising with plans of folding sucks I hate raising and calling as we are often way behind with 2 outs or 70/30. Now you math guys can figure out the % of the time he needs to be on a draw for calling the shove to be correct. But, I rather just call on this flop and keep the pot redic small till things develope and people show the strenghts of their hands behind us as well as infront of us. I often call in this spot and fold to a raise behind me usually, funny thing is when I saw the PF action and that board I immediately thought this is a perfect flop to check and with such a small bet you get to see how everyone reacts by only putting in 150 so call and than let the discussion begin.

[/ QUOTE ]

TY for the response and analysis. I also considered calling here, but then i realized that calling basically means we're giving up on the hand and folding if anyone gets aggressive on any street. even if draws miss, which leaves us VERY susceptible to bluffs/semibluffs

[nyg23]

This is actually my hand that the OPer posted bc we got into a huge argument about that led to a retarded flipament between two people that are too stubborn for their own good.

Heres what I actually did and I think it could be improved in hindsight but not as faulty as his. I raised to 450 in hopes of inducing a 3 bet or if I get any smooth callers Im also done with the hand. I figured any hand thats willing to 3 bet even with a draw is strong enough where i dont want to be calling off all or most of my chips. The hands that are three betting IMO are any Q, TT or any str8 draw w/ flush draw which are all strong enough where Im behind. I know my raise is very weak and but I only think im getting 3 bet here by hands that have me destroyed Im not calling faceup. With the preflop action I also think my small raise may represent even more strength considering i raised an UTG+1 limper and then followed up by rr his lead out on the flop.

Once this scary board came I was already aware how weak my hand was in a 4 handed pot and I decided I was going to try to protect my fairly deep stack and not try to invest say a pot sized bet which would be 1/3 of my stack on a horrible board. If i get 3 bet im not calling so why throw out a pot sized bet? Im trying to protect my stack, test the waters, and induce a 3bet by any hand i know Id be behind or wouldnt call if hands were face up. I probably should have raised a little more than I did like Bond said but w/ my thinking of the hand I still think my line was ok. Also I was planning to add on 2k during the addon period which encouraged me to want to protect my stack even more knowing id still be in good shape after the first hour.

Ive had a couple final tables but am not even close to being as experienced in MTT's as Id like and any input is great. My friend said pot sized bet BTW. I personally am in the state of mind w/ MTT's where I dont like this line. Maybe in the future with more knowledge I'll see it to be correct, if it is. Sorry for the rant.

[shaundeeb]

umm you say the 3betting draw hands that if were faceup you would fold is awful, passing up larger than 60/40 edges is really bad in MTTs.

[nyg23]

I meant hands that have combined draws like AJd, KJd, and J9d where im not a larger than 60/40 favorite. If I knew I was up against just a flush draw or str8 draw I would absolutely take it. Sorry if I was unclear.