My big leaks, how do I fix them?

EGO · #1 02-01-2007, 06:43 PM

I know this is kind of a vague question, but for the life of me I can't seem to make any headway improving in this area.

I play tight, aggressive poker. I can generally get the best of weaker players. Review of thousands of my own hands in PT show that (EV-wise) that I'm generally playing the correct cards in the correct spots. I try to play solid poker.

So how come, in the last 200K hands, I still can't recognize when I'm beat. I've noticed in reviewing my hands that when my EV drops from high to low, I don't recognize it, and I typically lose 2-3 big bets on the turn and river.

I think that my main problem is hand ranges. I don't have any trouble putting someone on a range of hands, and I practice this at the table, and away from the table with poker calculators and the PT replay window. I still don't know what to do with this information, though.

Any suggestions would be welcome to my questions. Thanks in advance.

bravos1 · #2 02-01-2007, 06:49 PM

I would guess that you do indeed have a hard time putting them on a range, well an accurate one at least. Do you always think people are bluffing or trying to push you off of a hand? Does your perceived hand range change after each bet/call/raise your villian does? It should, and you really need to think about hand ranges before acting.

Bona · #3 02-01-2007, 07:24 PM

What are your PT stats for WTSD? How about $WASD? I think, at micros anyway, you should be 30-35 WTSD and about 48-54 won at SD. With all the hands you have recorded, if you are not in those ranges that could help you find your problem.

(Please, other posters correct this if you disagree with my ranges.)

If you are not in those ranges look for where you should be folding your losing hands. Also play back draw hand situations and see if you had correct pot odds to draw.

See where you played on with 2nd or 3rd pair with overcards on the board.

EGO · #4 02-01-2007, 07:32 PM

That's exactly it. I have trouble narrowing down opponent's ranges.

Yes, I do tend to think people bluff more than they actually do, so I have a habit of being kind of fishy when I'm behind. Part of this problem is judging how often someone bluffs. Maybe the times I catch people with air stand out in my mind more.

I just had a thought that might simplify things. I tend to consider (though I know it is wrong), that when I feel my hand no longer might be best, that it becomes a "calling hand" rather than a "folding hand".

I blame Ed Miller and his nefarious "Why you aren't crushing these games" post.

Maybe I should adjust my strategy to something more black/white. Maybe it would help if instead of calling down a turn raise and a river bet with something like tptk against a solid player (on a dry board, of course - he could be semi-bluffing), I should just fold to the raise? Is this standard against someone who isn't likely to make a wonky raise with an underpair?

Anyway, thanks for your response. I'm looking forward for more instruction on this topic.

Oh, and just kidding, Ed. I wouldn't be half as good as I am (or think I am) without SSHE. And on a relate note, if I shouldn't be folding in big pots with decent hands for one bet, maybe I should be folding these decent hands in smaller pots?

EGO · #5 02-01-2007, 07:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What are your PT stats for WTSD? How about $WASD? I think, at micros anyway, you should be 30-35 WTSD and about 48-54 won at SD. With all the hands you have recorded, if you are not in those ranges that could help you find your problem.

(Please, other posters correct this if you disagree with my ranges.)

If you are not in those ranges look for where you should be folding your losing hands. Also play back draw hand situations and see if you had correct pot odds to draw.

See where you played on with 2nd or 3rd pair with overcards on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have played over 200K hands online. My PT stats are OK. Don't let my post count fool you. Thanks for the suggestions, though.

BTW - I find 48% W%SD a little on the low side, over the long term.

00Snitch · #6 02-01-2007, 07:41 PM

i suck too and im losing all my monies.

[ QUOTE ]

I should just fold to the raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

one thing i have been trying to look for and stop doing is calling down turn raises in small (5BB) pots.

i cant say it has helped me, im still losing, but it cant hurt.

if i look at my "Misc stats" tab in PT, there are some massive sick red numbers beside "High card" and "One Pair". but i cant seem to stop it. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Zeldark · #7 02-01-2007, 08:05 PM

I'm guessing you're playing about .25/.50 to .5/1? Maybe some 1/2? My advice, from your admittedly vague symptoms is:

Tighten up preflop.
Bluff less.

OziBattler · #8 02-01-2007, 08:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So how come, in the last 200K hands, I still can't recognize when I'm beat. I've noticed in reviewing my hands that when my EV drops from high to low, I don't recognize it, and I typically lose 2-3 big bets on the turn and river.

I think that my main problem is hand ranges. I don't have any trouble putting someone on a range of hands, and I practice this at the table, and away from the table with poker calculators and the PT replay window. I still don't know what to do with this information, though.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm, when I read I read that you are putting people a range of hands and then not using that information or dont know how to use it....to be honest after 200k hands this is something that you should be able to do IMHO. That sounds harsh and maybe it is more a case of you know in theory that you should, for example, fold but you cant resist calling down when you know you are beat.

maybe you play too many tables and/or arent getting the correct reads at the table...really I dont know but it sounds like you need to make a few adjustments. FWIW Ive recently been through a similar pain of spewing chips on the big streets by being a calldown monkey. I even wrote a milestone post* about it and it is in the Digest stickied at the top of the forum
*sorry for the blantant self-plug of my post [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

oh and there is another standard thing that I always mention for people who want a tune up...wait for it.....wait for it...session reviews. Signups for the next round begin in <24hrs. holla.

edit: snitch will probably make a comment about me pimping the reviews but my precanned retort would be to ask why he is yet to signup [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Aaron W. · #9 02-01-2007, 09:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Review of thousands of my own hands in PT show that (EV-wise) that I'm generally playing the correct cards in the correct spots. I try to play solid poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I suspect that your thousands of hands were not as correct as you may have thought. And maybe "solid poker" isn't what you think it is.

EGO · #10 02-01-2007, 10:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm guessing you're playing about .25/.50 to .5/1? Maybe some 1/2? My advice, from your admittedly vague symptoms is:

Tighten up preflop.
Bluff less.

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly 2/4 and sometimes 3/6.

I have trouble realizing when I go from being a favorite in a hand, which is the majority of the time pre-flop and the flop (indicating pre-flop tightness), and that I often lose money when calling down when beaten - not bluffing.

Thanks for responding, though.