.25/.50 No Max- OESD vs Superdonk

[Jeff76]

CO in this hand is really bad. I already stacked him once when he called a $4 bet (I was raising over limpers with QQ) with J8o and caught a jack on the flop.

I'm just wondering how you play this. If I bet into him, there's no way we're not getting it all in (assuming he's got an overpair, which he'll have 90% of the time after the PF action). I am somewhere in the range of a 35% dog if he does have an overpair, which means getting 2:1 on my money I'll have to call a push by him anyway. My feeling at the time was better to get it all in now than deal with a blank on the turn. Thoughts?

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25./$0.50.
10 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $52.60
UTG+1: $26.40
UTG+2: $28.45
MP1: $26.15
MP2: $41.85
Hero: $119
CO: $16.15
Button: $36.25
SB: $9.85
BB: $62.45

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP3 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP1 raises to $1.5</font>, MP2 folds, Hero calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $4</font>, 2 folds, BB calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($13.75, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero ????

[oober]

Playing for set value a better move here IMO... If he's gonna go to the mat with regularity, I'm not going in on the ignorant side of a str8 draw...

Flat call PF C/C 6$ flop bet... Fold to anymore...

Just my 2 cents... Better opportunities will come along.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going in on the ignorant side of a str8 draw...

[/ QUOTE ]I have a better draw than just the straight. I also have two outs to a set, and given the PF action there's a good chance all of my outs are good. Villain can't price me off my draw no matter what he does.

[Thrahl]

Given your description of villain you have zero fold equity and you are a Dog vs any reasonable made hand in his range. If hes that big of an idiot I don't understand why you're so eager to play for stacks here. Wait for a better spot.

I'm with oober, I check call a moderate flop bet, otherwise I'm done with this hand.

[pureCra2z]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with oober, I check call a moderate flop bet, otherwise I'm done with this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. if CO is as desribed, you can easily find a better spot to stack him with a made hand and let him call your big bets. I check on flop/call small bet on flop.

[andyEB]

Your notes on this hand confuse me and I think it's important to know how he's bad to know how to play the hand.

If he's really LAGGY bad then I check here. If he's a station I make a PSB.

I don't understand why if he's really bad you're thinking he has an OP if he calls your bet. Also, I don't see why it's going AI? You don't have to play it that fast until you hit your hand do you or is he an uber-lag-donk?.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
Given your description of villain you have zero fold equity and you are a Dog vs any reasonable made hand in his range. If hes that big of an idiot I don't understand why you're so eager to play for stacks here.

[/ QUOTE ]It is quite clear I have zero fold equity here, which is why I am interested in this hand. Bascially this hand plays itself from villains perspective, and the notion that he is really bad at poker doesn't really affect how he'll play the hand at this point (though it DOES explain his horrible PF re-raise).

I'm not really "eager to play for stacks", but I have a better than 2:1 chance of making my hand, and since all he has is a PSB left in his stack, if he shoves I'll be getting 2:1 and thus have to call.

From my perspective, I think action in which we DON'T get it all in here is bad for me, as I don't want to have to deal with a blank turn, as that really weakens my draw a lot.

Also, there is the issue that my outs are all probably clean against HIM since he put in a 3bet PF (and therefore has an OP 90% of the time), but might not be clean against anyone else who decides to stick around (I could make a set, for instance, and make a straight for anyone holding an 8).

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
Your notes on this hand confuse me and I think it's important to know how he's bad to know how to play the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, I don't really think it matters at this point because he's comitted to the hand now with only a PSB behind. I mentioned his donkishness mainly to explain the PF betting- his re-raise is horrible given his stack size- he's re-raising an amount that comitts him to the hand, but gives good odds to hands that can outflop him.

[ QUOTE ]
If he's a station I make a PSB.

[/ QUOTE ]He is definitly a station, however a PSB puts him all in. Which I guess is what I want, but I do want to make sure you realize this since you ask "I don't see why it's going AI?"

[ QUOTE ]
I don't understand why if he's really bad you're thinking he has an OP if he calls your bet.

[/ QUOTE ]Vollain 3bet PF, and while he's CALLED light, I haven't seen him RAISE light PF. So he has an overpair about 90% of the time. He also could have AK, but if he does he's probably going to get all in with it anyway due to the nature of his stack size and his overvaluation of hands.

[ QUOTE ]
You don't have to play it that fast until you hit your hand do you or is he an uber-lag-donk?.

[/ QUOTE ]It all comes down to stack sizes. He only has a PSB left, so there's not much room to get fancy here. I either need to play fast and try to get all his chips in the middle right now, or play a little more passivly and try to hit my draw first.

On a side note, don't you hate it when people buy in short on a "no max" table?

[ronaldann]

with these kind of hands you really depend on FE. In this case I don't think you have any, so checking behind is clearly better. Try to keep the pot small until you hit. If he open shoves any blank turn, oh well. give it up and stack him next hand.

[Jeff76]

[ QUOTE ]
with these kind of hands you really depend on FE.

[/ QUOTE ]Not true, at least not against the CO, who is the one most likely to have a hand here. I don't need FE to make my play profitable, as getting it all in against his stack is profitable (unless he has something other than an overpair).

[ QUOTE ]
In this case I don't think you have any, so checking behind is clearly better.

[/ QUOTE ]Unfortunately, I don't have this option as CO is yet to act . . .

Upon further reflection, it seems to me the best line here is to check planning to call a push from the CO or C/R AI if he bets less than that. On the off chance that the BB flopped a monster and is slowplaying, this will let me get away from my hand cheaply.

Once the BB gets out of the way, though, folding to any bet by the CO is -EV.