NL50 | AA on gross board

[Xanta]

I like to 4bet here some of the time PF, and smoothcall and C/R flop sometimes. I wish I had a read that villain would fire out a cbet in a 3bet pot, but I hadn't been around long enough to see yet. I've played with him for around 500 hands or so, and he's 3bet probably 4 or 5 times but hasn't been called yet to the best of my knowledge. He has played a tight game and hasn't gotten out of line at all yet.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $6.75</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($14.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($14.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $10</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: $10 returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: $14.25

I had absolutely no idea what to do on this flop, as it clobbered his range and I'm OOP. I decided to check and call a smallish bet, but I think that I have to pitch it if he makes a good sized bet as I'm never getting to showdown cheap if he wants to build the pot.

Thoughts?

[KurtSF]

I raise to about $20 pre. Call a shove, and shove a call.

I don't need to win his stack with AA, I just need to win. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Xanta]

I think that's alright at this level, but what other hands are you 4betting preflop with? If it's just KK and maybe QQ, you are losing a significant profit against an observant player, I think. While I do 4bet around 50% of the time now, as we move up, we're going to get away with it a lot less.

[SCBielski]

I generally 4-bet my AA preflop particularly against a tight villain to really narrow their hand range; if they hold KK then you will get them to commit all in preflop, if not I think they might fold out with anything less than JJ or QQ. You might get a smooth call from KK or QQ, but at least you can but them on a very tight range.

[Xanta]

[ QUOTE ]
I generally 4-bet my AA preflop particularly against a tight villain to really narrow their hand range; if they hold KK then you will get them to commit all in preflop, if not I think they might fold out with anything less than JJ or QQ. You might get a smooth call from KK or QQ, but at least you can but them on a very tight range.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK this is a very wrong way of thinking about the problem, and it's probably one that's results oriented after getting you aces cracked one too many times.

You're correct about 4betting narrowing the TAGs range significantly. This villain in particular would fold anything but AA, KK, and maybe QQ and AK here. Here's the problem: That is the exact opposite of what we want to do! We have the best starting hand in the game, and the more hands villain is willing to play, the better. Wanting the villain to fold most of his hands so that the hand is simple postflop is not the most optimal line here all the time, it's just the easiest.

Right now the villain has a relatively undefined range, but it is certainly significantly larger than the one I mentioned above. If I smoothcall and check the flop, most (not all) villains will C-bet with whatever they 3bet preflop with. This is where the value in smoothcalling comes from; trapping money in the pot when he tries to push us off.

If he has KK, I'm stacking him on most flops anyways. If he has QQ, he might felt it as an overpair as well. If AK hits we are getting a good chunk of his stack, and even if it misses he cbets a lot here. We are getting almost all the value we would have from his 4bet calling range, and then some from whatever junk he would fold to a 4bet.

Sometimes he calls and flops a set and we go broke, but that's only one in 8.5 times, which I'm pretty happy to take. One other argument for a 4bet is that the amount of extra money that goes in on a 4bet is greater than a continuation bet in a 3bet pot, but I think against a TAG the frequency of him cbetting trumps the greater magnitude of a 4bet call or push.

Mind you, against and idiot who thinks that AT is a pretty great hand, I'm 4betting here all day. But I had played with this villain enough to know that he wasn't doing that, so I think that smoothcalling is best here.

[Kharlog]

Post deleted by Kharlog

[Xanta]

Khralog: His range here doesn't include JJ, TT, 99 here?

[Kharlog]

Yes. Nevermind.

[barryc83]

xanta: I will smooth call pf here a lot too for just the reasons you stated above. His flop check scares the [censored] out of me honestly. Given that villain is unknown, but did 3bet to a good amount I'd guess his range is JJ+/AK here, maybe even excluding JJ. He either floped a set or decided to take a free card with AK. After the K comes off you only beat AK so I like the fold. If he bet the flop I'd call and see what he does bc most villains wont fire 2 barrels in a RR pot.

[Triggerle]

Xanta,

Not really applicable with OP's description of this case but 4-betting can still be good if you feel he's getting out of line with his 3-bets. If he folds he will remember that you stood up to him for quite some time in the session and might 3-bet you less.