Not uncommon limit HU situation

[sweetjazz]

You open OTB and an aggressive player 3bets you. He 3bets a lot preflop OOP and his range is a mix of pairs, A highs, broadway cards, and suited connectors. You call with T9o. Postflop, our villain is aggressive and you can expect him to fire flop and turn almost no matter what hits the board. He calls down with just about anything with showdown value and is not a very good hand reader.

Flop comes KK3r. He bets. How often do you peel here? Are you considering making a move for this pot? Does your answer change if you had T9s and a backdoor flush draw?

[WillyT]

Against an opponent like you describe I don't think I'd be peeling this flop ever. I don't even think I'm making a play at this pot almost ever either. I know we're going to be making plays at pots but I don't like going after this one all that often.
What is your reasoning behind wanting to peel? (assuming you do want to, or at least you think there may be a good reason to since your posts are usually quite thoughtful.)

Basically I've got T high and unless this guy folds too much post flop (which I don't think he does from your description) I'm done with the pot.

How do you play this board with A7? Call and raise what percentages of the time?

[phish]

[ QUOTE ]
Against an opponent like you describe I don't think I'd be peeling this flop ever. I don't even think I'm making a play at this pot almost ever either. I know we're going to be making plays at pots but I don't like going after this one all that often.
What is your reasoning behind wanting to peel? (assuming you do want to, or at least you think there may be a good reason to since your posts are usually quite thoughtful.)

Basically I've got T high and unless this guy folds too much post flop (which I don't think he does from your description) I'm done with the pot.

How do you play this board with A7? Call and raise what percentages of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think peeling the flop is automatic. You can't play HU if you're not willing to peel this flop against this opponent. And checkraise the turn if you hit a pair.

However, I would not have raised pre-flop against this guy. Keep the pot small so that his flaws post-flop will be magnified.

I would continue with the hand on the turn if I make a pair or gutshot. I would not try making a bluff against someone like him, especially with this board. Since even poor hand-readers will recognize that you're more likely to have missed this board than hit it, and is trying to use to KK's to bluff with. Aggressive fearless opponents are more likely to reraise you than to fold, and it doesn't sound like you want to be in the situation of out-aggressioning this guy. And there probably isn't a need to. The fact that he is a poor-hand reader and PREDICTIBLY aggressive are flaws that you will have plenty of opportunity to exploit later in the match.

[WillyT]

"I think peeling the flop is automatic. You can't play HU if you're not willing to peel this flop against this opponent. And checkraise the turn if you hit a pair."

We're in position here so we wouldn't need to checkraise if we hit a pair. Did you just mean raise if we hit a pair or were you thinking we were out of position. I'm really confused if we're playing a lot of hands without showdown value like this against this guy from out of position.

"However, I would not have raised pre-flop against this guy. Keep the pot small so that his flaws post-flop will be magnified."

Interesting idea. T9 seems like a lot of hand for HU but I'm going to toy around with some numbers on keeping the pot small against a guy who is raising oop preflop a fair amount and firing two barrels.

A lot of the things in this situation depends on how well this guy plays the river. i.e. how often does he 3 barrel, how often does he just check and fold when he's whiffed and how well does he go about check calling his showdownable hands.

"I would continue with the hand on the turn if I make a pair or gutshot. I would not try making a bluff against someone like him, especially with this board."

Are you peeling for some metagame reasons that fit well with your style or because you think it's positive expectation in a vacuum....(or both, i guess). I'll have to work it out but I do think we'll need him to be giving up by check folding too many rivers for this to be profitable.

"Aggressive fearless opponents are more likely to reraise you than to fold, and it doesn't sound like you want to be in the situation of out-aggressioning this guy. And there probably isn't a need to. The fact that he is a poor-hand reader and PREDICTIBLY aggressive are flaws that you will have plenty of opportunity to exploit later in the match."

Agreed, which is why I was originally thinking to just dump the hand and move on. I'm not saying i'd never call against anyone in this situation, just not against this guy for the reasons you list...they seem like good evidence of a fold.

-WT

[jba]

standard peel for me, but I'm not going to make a move at the pot.

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
standard peel for me, but I'm not going to make a move at the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

basically yeah. We are getting 7-1 right away with position and we don't want to cave to his 3-bet flop leads all too often. If I completely blank off on the turn I might raise sometimes though, because I have a king like always when I do that. thos occurences are pretty rare (+ i would raise the flop witha king).

[Gap23Razor]

[ QUOTE ]
He 3bets a lot preflop OOP and his range is a mix of pairs, A highs, broadway cards, and suited connectors. You call with T9o.

Flop comes KK3r. He bets. How often do you peel here? Are you considering making a move for this pot? Does your answer change if you had T9s and a backdoor flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's my thinking, but i am no means an expert...but i appreciate the opportunity to put in a thought or two and see others reaction...

Flop--fold with T9o, as the preflop three bet defined his hand as one likely better than ours, and we did not get any help on the flop.

Make a move--no, he does not read hands well, we would be betting into strength and he usually calls to the river--i would wait to win a few showdowns/and see him fold to my good hands before showdown before i tried a move...

Change with T9o backdoor flush draw--not really, bdfd adds only 1.5 outs...not enough to make a play

the above would be my default way to play that hand over a session with this villain...but a few times i would need to make that call just to avoid becoming predictible--game theroy application here...

we have maybe 5 outs at best in this situation, perhaps fewer if the villain holds an overpair...i we allow ourselves 4 outs we have perhaps a 8% chance to improve to be ahead on the turn, and then there would be a redraw possibility for the river--offhand i would allow maybe a 7% chance of winning the pot here...the pot has 7 sb in it, and we would need to put in 1 to call and then 4 more sb to call the turn and river... game theroy as per HEFAP would give guidance as to the correct percentage...the trick would be come up with a randomizer method

[kapw7]

Standard flop call. I prefer to call this than with K3o on a T94r flop for example.

[noggindrill]

fold

[Gildwulf]

If he fires the turn no matter what, you have the odds to peel and raise if you hit a ten or a nine.

Your hand has zero showdown value obviously and you are never going to be able to bluff him off any kind of hand. So I would just play this predictably and peel, fold turn and raise if you hit.