Folding 4 to a flush - mistake?

[forhasta]

Hi Guys, my first post here. I'm learning stud and doing ok in the low limits. I cant help but think I played this one badly. Could you let me know what you think? Was this too low a flush to start with?

PokerStars Game #8154135518: 7 Card Stud Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2007/01/27 - 20:50:09 (ET)

Seat 2: cookstir ($19.65 in chips)
Seat 3: zxcvbnm58 ($53.90 in chips)
Seat 4: berks thrift ($17.95 in chips)
Seat 5: rcj2good ($16.75 in chips)
Seat 6: SMOKIN02 ($5.15 in chips)
Seat 7: forhasta ($29.85 in chips)
Seat 8: Bulbous2112 ($3.95 in chips)


*** 3rd STREET ***
Dealt to cookstir [Ad]
Dealt to zxcvbnm58 [9s]
Dealt to berks thrift [Jd]
Dealt to rcj2good [4s]
Dealt to SMOKIN02 [Th]
Dealt to forhasta [8h 4h 3h]
Dealt to Bulbous2112 [9d]


forhasta: brings in for $0.25
Bulbous2112: calls $0.25
cookstir: raises $0.25 to $0.50
zxcvbnm58: calls $0.50
berks thrift: folds
rcj2good: folds
SMOKIN02: calls $0.50
forhasta: calls $0.25
Bulbous2112: calls $0.25
*** 4th STREET ***
Dealt to cookstir [Ad] [Qs]
Dealt to zxcvbnm58 [9s] [6d]
Dealt to SMOKIN02 [Th] [As]
Dealt to forhasta [8h 4h 3h] [Qh]
Dealt to Bulbous2112 [9d] [Kd]

cookstir: bets $0.50
zxcvbnm58: calls $0.50
SMOKIN02: calls $0.50
forhasta: calls $0.50
Bulbous2112: calls $0.50



*** 5th STREET ***
Dealt to cookstir [Ad Qs] [4d]
Dealt to zxcvbnm58 [9s 6d] [2c]
Dealt to SMOKIN02 [Th As] [7h]
Dealt to forhasta [8h 4h 3h Qh] [5d]
Dealt to Bulbous2112 [9d Kd] [Ts]
cookstir: bets $1
zxcvbnm58: calls $1
SMOKIN02: folds
forhasta: calls $1
Bulbous2112: calls $1


*** 6th STREET ***
Dealt to cookstir [Ad Qs 4d] [8d]
Dealt to zxcvbnm58 [9s 6d 2c] [6c]
Dealt to forhasta [8h 4h 3h Qh 5d] [2s]
Dealt to Bulbous2112 [9d Kd Ts] [Td]
Bulbous2112: bets $1
cookstir: calls $1
zxcvbnm58: raises $1 to $2
forhasta: folds
Bulbous2112: calls $0.90 and is all-in
cookstir: calls $1


*** RIVER ***
cookstir: checks
zxcvbnm58: bets $1
cookstir: folds

*** SHOW DOWN ***
zxcvbnm58: shows [Kh Kc 9s 6d 2c 6c Qc] (two pair, Kings and Sixes)
zxcvbnm58 collected $0.20 from side pot
Bulbous2112: shows [8s Tc 9d Kd Ts Td 7d] (three of a kind, Tens)
Bulbous2112 collected $14.55 from main pot


*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $15.25 Main pot $14.55. Side pot $0.20. | Rake $0.50
Seat 2: cookstir folded on the River
Seat 3: zxcvbnm58 showed [Kh Kc 9s 6d 2c 6c Qc] and won ($0.20) with two pair, Kings and Sixes
Seat 4: berks thrift folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 5: rcj2good folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 6: SMOKIN02 folded on the 5th Street
Seat 7: forhasta folded on the 6th Street
Seat 8: Bulbous2112 showed [8s Tc 9d Kd Ts Td 7d] and won ($14.55) with three of a kind, Tens


Thanks,

[crabbypatty]

wow, big fold for 2 more bets and i am suprised? why did you fold here? did you figure that bulbous had a flush already and were only going to be playing for a side pot? (i did) unfortunately there is often no rhime or reason for your opponents hands. and that makes this a good reason to see the river. of course if you folded this baby 3 flush on 3rd you wouldn't have to worry about it on 6th.

i think the real important lesson in this hand is how badly zxcvbnm played his wired K's he should have definately reraised on 3rd and then maybe you wouldn't have been in at all, right? calling a double raise cold on 3rd with a baby 3flush is a very bad idea!

[forhasta]

Thanks. What do you mean by a double raise on 3rd? I think it was just a single raise. One of the problems of the low limits is that sometimes it can be tricky to put people on hands - as you say, often there is no rhyme or reason for their actions. My thought was that he made his K high flush - but as you say for 2 more bets....

[crabbypatty]

no it was not a double raise but should have been. the question is: would you have called a double raise? the answer should almost always be no!

[forhasta]

Definitely not calling a double raise!

[Truthiness24]

This hand really wasn't even worth calling for 25 cents on 3rd. You had low separated cards and could only win if you made your flush. Draws suck in stud.

If you bring in and then see 4th street free with these cards, and with all those callers, then probably you call all the way through. The dbl raise is tough, though.

Draws suck in stud.

[iamastud]

false, false and more false.
draw hands are an integral part of stud play. an integral part!

[RandomUser]

Another consideration.

I think you call 6th because of the double draw. You have an opened straight as well as the flush draw. Some of your cards are dead, though (2 As, 2 6s, and 2 hearts, leaving 9 outs to make your hand).

That means you have 9 in 29 chances of making your hand (20/9 against compared to calling $2 in a $14 pot.

Also, if you miss on 7th street, you don't have to call.

Yes, you won't win the pot every time if you do hit, but you will it often enough to make 6th street a definite call.

Last considerations is what your plan is if Bulbous reraises on 6th street, representing either a flush or a full house. If he does, you should muck your hand since your chances of winning a showdown have plummetted probably 75%.

Edit: Just saw that Bulbous was all-in so that last paragraph wouldn't apply to this hand. It is something to keep in mind in general, however.

[Andy B]

Converter

[forhasta]

Thanks iamastud. I didn't think about my gutshot straight at the time. I put Bulbous on the higher flush, I suppose I could have called and folded if I didn't make my hand.

I still felt calling with the single raise was an ok play. These players were playing very loose and only one of my hearts had gone. If i didn't make the four to a flush, or if i did and two more of my hearts had gone, then I would fold on 4th.

I am still learning though....