Pro Poker Money. Where does it come from?

[eightballa]

There may not be an eloquent way to ask this, because it is a stupid question.

But, there is a large amount of money in the hands of high-stakes professional poker players. Where does it come from? Noone is actually working for this money, bringing money in from outside of poker. It is constantly being redistributed amongst the players, while also constantly being chipped away by the rake.

What is the other factor I am missing? People like Buss?

[Mr. Pulaski]

For winning players the answer is simple: the money is supplied by the losing players. There are far more losing players in the game than there are winning players so, for the players that consistently keep an edge and make regular profits from their play, there is plenty of moola to go around. Why do the losing players keep playing. They are just chasing that dream and gambling away big pots and the rest of us should do everything in our power to convince them that they are doing a good job of it and that they are sure to reach it someday! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[johnnyrocket]

yea thats a real stupid question. So many rich people who suck try playing and just donate their money pretty much.

[johnnyrocket]

if u had to ask that question u prolly shouldnt be playing poker lol

[SplawnDarts]

[ QUOTE ]
if u had to ask that question u prolly shouldnt be playing poker lol

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, it's a very good question, and the answer is not obvious at all.

In reality, there's three sources. The first is weathy amatures that want to challange the big games. Andy Beale and smaller clones that are content to merely play the big games. The second is tournament winnings - many of the big pros are winners at tournament but losers at cash games. Third, there's a "pyramid" of poker of sorts. Every time someone trys to move up in stakes, and fails, they deposit money won at the lower limits up at the higher limits. This effect moves money to the proportionally unraked top of the pyramid, and leaves it there. There is no analogous effect moving it back down the pyramid, so it stays at the top, and gets passed around or taken out a circulation when a big pro gets the investing bug.

A fairly new 4th source is poker site endorsement deals.

[CurryLover]

There are a lot of people who work hard for a living and lose a small proportion of their salary playing poker. There are a much smaller number of very rich producers who donate a percentage of their fortunes to the game. But these two things only partly account for the health of the poker economy.

It is an unpleasant, but true, fact that a substantial portion of the money circulating the poker economy is dirty money. We are indirectly making money from crime because so much of the money that flows into the poker economy is profit from drugs and other crime. I would go so far as to suggest that making a living at poker might be almost impossible if it were not for this huge injection of crime money into the poker economy.

It is poker's dirty secret.

[calbearsone]

[ QUOTE ]


A fairly new 4th source is poker site endorsement deals.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know this for a fact, but I'm certain that this is a large source of the poker money supply. Yes, there are plenty of wealthy poor players, but not enough to account for all the winnings; however there surely have been many more poor players due to the explosion of hold'em. The fact is, though, that the major faces and big tournament winners have contracts just like pro athletes. Of course most of these players keep winning after they sign, but some don't. No need to mention names, but think about the ostentatious-loudmouths that scream and yell on TV the few times they get sucked out on. They don't seem to say much when they get outplayed which is more than the camera shows because no one wants to watch these players just sit calmly. With enough tries they make a couple final tables and create great ratings with their antics, but they only keep playing because their endorsements are a resource to keep their losing play from depleting their bankrolls. There is also the washed out players who are obviously not in touch with how hold’em has changed, yet their star power and historical intrigue makes for good ratings as well.
About poker's dirty secret: Yes, a good amount of the money supply comes from criminal profits. It is an obvious shame that these crimes occur, but would they still happen if poker didn't exist? Of course they would! It’s not like the local dealer is thinking "man, I really gotta push the rest of these dimes so I can hit the 10-20 tonight." Just because some criminals lose their money playing poker doesn't cause poker to be at fault in any way. The crimes would occur regardless, and actually poker serves as a conduit for transferring money from immoral and unethical people to people with higher standards. Not that all winning players are saints, but surely not all winners are the remaking of Al Capone. So while it might be a secret, calling it dirty is short sighting the independence between crime and the criminals losing their profits at the tables. Also, note your sources. If an idea is not completely common knowledge (like pot odds) then you should mention where you are getting it from if it’s not original. Maybe you’re the author of the book implied here, in which case I apologize, but if not list it as a source for you post(s).

[sayuncle]

Well, if the TV show high stakes poker is an indication, it comes from Helmuth and Negreanu.

So, ask them where they get theirs.

Tongue firmly in cheek, btw.

[Central Limit]

I've been interested in this question for a while. I've also been interested in some related questions: does more money come in at the top of the poker pyramid or at the bottom. Does money tend to flow upward or downward. Etc...

If we look at on-line poker only, you could answer most of these questions if you could get access to the poker sites databases. You could see what percent of money lost at the biggest tables comes from people who started playing there and feed their poker accounts from their own bank accounts versus the percent of money lost at the big tables that comes from people who started at the bottom and worked their way up.

As far as live poker goes, I think a lot of the high stakes players have incomes from sources other than poker: inheritances, real estate, bookmaking, drug dealing, restaurants, etc...

[Mike]

Some big money players are horses for wealthy people who can't play themselves but want in on the action so they buy a player.