CAZ top set on river

Hass · #1 01-25-2007, 03:34 AM

20/40 at CAZ, good game, as always.

Just moved to the main game, it's my 4th or 5th hand. Only players I know are BB, and MP1.

MP1 plays in the 20 and 40 games regularly but I don't think he is a winning player.

UTG raises
Hero UTG+1 3-bets Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
MP1 calls 3 cold
MP2 calls 3 cold
BB calls 2
UTG calls

15 sb's

Flop T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG checks
Hero bets
All call

10 bb's

Turn: T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG checks
Hero bets
MP1 calls
MP2 calls
BB folds
UTG folds

13 bb's

River T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets
MP1 Raises
MP2 folds
Hero?????

Nate. · #2 01-25-2007, 04:15 AM

Hass --

PM me a name and I can probably help more.

In some sense this is a standard 3bet/call four. Against plenty, though, it's better to call. One thing that makes this close is that so many players are irrationally averse to being aggressive without the initiative.

Oh, and one thing that makes the threebet standard is that so many players will be tricky and wait for the river with a worse made hand such as a flopped underset.

So, threebet and call four.

--Nate

ILOVEPOKER929 · #3 01-25-2007, 04:15 AM

Theres nothing to think about here. The pot's too big to fold and 3betting would be major spewage so just call and hope for the best.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #4 01-25-2007, 04:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]

So, threebet and call four.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

3betting this river = I hate money.

This is a crying call situation. When the villain raises the river you should be hating life becuz when the typical live player raises the river on that board after playing passively the whole hand, top set is going to be losing most of the time. I expect to see KJs or AhKh,AhJh,AhTh,KhTh,JhTh or some other cheesy flush alot more often than a hand the hero can beat.

bakku · #5 01-25-2007, 05:12 AM

easy call. your other two options aren't even worth discussing unless you have a specific read on your opponent that you haven't mentioned

HOWMANY · #6 01-25-2007, 05:59 AM

[ QUOTE ]
easy call. your other two options aren't even worth discussing unless you have a specific read on your opponent that you haven't mentioned

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually think folding is worth discussing. When I reply to an online hand a lot of times I think that I know the "right" line but might not be able to actually do it in practice. If I played this hand in a live game I think I could actually make myself fold without too much difficulty as long as I felt I was beat.

That said I wasn't there, so I can't say folding is right, just that it may be worth giving some thought to. I certainly want to call, but I could be persuaded otherwise with additional information.

Nate. · #7 01-25-2007, 07:16 AM

Yikes. This is interesting. Guess my sensibilities are way off here. Perhaps I'm used to people misadjusting to me. Perhaps I'm just wrong on this one. But so many of my opponents whose ranges are wide enough to have significantly many hands that beat me will raise this river with anything that beats AA.

--Nate

Howard Beale · #8 01-25-2007, 08:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yikes. This is interesting. Guess my sensibilities are way off here. Perhaps I'm used to people misadjusting to me. Perhaps I'm just wrong on this one. But so many of my opponents whose ranges are wide enough to have significantly many hands that beat me will raise this river with anything that beats AA.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

The way that game plays I think ILOVEPOKER929's advice is good. I'd just call and expect to see one of the A-High heart hands that he mentioned as I've seen them too many times before.

william288 · #9 01-25-2007, 11:39 AM

[ QUOTE ]

3betting this river = I hate money.

This is a crying call situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hass · #10 01-25-2007, 12:51 PM

Well I made it 3-bets and Villan called.

My thinking during the hand was, I can beat all sets and all 2 pairs.

Then I insta 3-bet without thinking about hands like ATh, JTh, KJh, KJo.

After he only smooth called the river I proudly show my set thinkings it's good. 10 min later he shows JTh