50nl: AJ, messed up top two pair on a 3flush turn

Adelson · #1 01-24-2007, 02:47 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($30.50)
Button ($26.25)
SB ($48.75)
Hero ($67.10)
UTG ($47.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Button raises to $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($2.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.5, Hero calls $1.50.

Turn: ($5.25) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $1.5, Hero raises to $5, Button raises to $12, Hero calls $7.

River: ($29.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $11.75 (All-In), Hero calls $11.75.

Button is 22.5/10/11 through ~20 hands. Haven't seen him minraise yet.

Sir Winalot · #2 01-24-2007, 03:02 AM

Raise turn to 8 and shove over his minraise. I would also consider re-raising preflop.

Genz · #3 01-24-2007, 03:08 AM

I think I check/raise him on the flop. Can anybody tell me if this is a good spot and why?

As played, I don't mind getting all my money in on the turn. I don't like the third diamond, of course, but in a steal situation like this it's less likely he has a flush but just hit his A and is going to felt it.

Pokey · #4 01-24-2007, 08:57 AM

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I think I check/raise him on the flop. Can anybody tell me if this is a good spot and why?

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If I called a preflop raise OOP with crap like AJo, I would consider this an absolutely outstanding flop. I'm check-raising every time. I probably make it $5 or $6 to go, and I'm getting it all-in if he three-bets me.

That having been said, I would rarely call this preflop raise. Button is tight and not terribly aggressive, he's got position on me, and I've got an easily dominated hand: I don't like going to war with this. I'd much rather call this bet with 22 or even 87s than AJo.

FalconTi0 · #5 01-24-2007, 09:04 AM

maybe im wrong but doesnt the flop look like a c-bet? i would check raise the flop. i think he will fold but i get it all in on the turn if he stays in.

Redd · #6 01-24-2007, 12:08 PM

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f I called a preflop raise OOP with crap like AJo, I would consider this an absolutely outstanding flop. I'm check-raising every time. I probably make it $5 or $6 to go, and I'm getting it all-in if he three-bets me.

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Whoa - this was the exact opposite response I expected from you, Pokey. I agree about folding pf, but when we hit the flop, what worse hands are paying off our C/R? And what worse hands does he go all in with? I mean, he'll occasionally pay off with TT or stack of with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], but those hands are a pretty small part of his range (the rest behind overpairs and sets) when he calls or 3-bets.

This seems to me like a WA/WBish (I know there's a FD out there but usually he won't have diamonds) situation where we win the most/lose the least by c/c, c/cing. Could you elaborate on what you expect Villain's calling range to be here?

Adelson · #7 01-24-2007, 01:20 PM

I agree that pf is a fold, but having called, I don't like a check/raise on the flop. I agree with Redd. A check/raise on the flop lets us put money in when behind and none when ahead. A check/call, check turn line is superior IMO. However, we do allow hands like KQ/KT, AK/AQ, and flush draws draw for cheap.

Pokey · #8 01-24-2007, 02:47 PM

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This seems to me like a WA/WBish (I know there's a FD out there but usually he won't have diamonds) situation where we win the most/lose the least by c/c, c/cing.

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I agree with the WA/WB statement, but in this situation I'd check-raise with the intent of winning the pot right here. I know that most better hands will call, but there are EXTREMELY few better hands out there. I know that most worse hands will call, but my hand is highly unlikely to improve and there are a host of scare cards in the deck: I don't want to see a diamond, a king, a queen, a seven, or a four: that's 24 cards out of 47 that would leave me uncomfortable! That's why winning the hand immediately is no great loss for me. Besides avoiding unpleasant decisions on the turn and river, raising here will make your opponent noticeably less frisky with c-betting against you, and that will prove valuable down the road.

When I improve to a best-but-vulnerable hand on the flop I will often check-raise a c-bettor in order to "break off a bluff" and end the hand before things get out of control: out of position we'll have little ability for pot control, and my opponent will likely punish me mercilessly if he's ahead but get off relatively cheaply if he's behind. Taking the pot down right away doesn't bother me one bit in this situation.

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Could you elaborate on what you expect Villain's calling range to be here?

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I'd say overpairs, AJ, sets, and diamond draws. Against this range I'm doing mediocre at best, but given that he folds the vast majority of the time I get my EV from this play out of avoiding bad laydowns on turn/river scare cards and reducing the danger of reverse implied odds with a decent hand that is highly unlikely to improve.

eigenvalue · #9 01-24-2007, 03:18 PM

Preflop: Depending on earlier action at the table, you might think about a reraise, because AJ is one of the worst hands to play OOP.
Flop: Your call here is terrible. The board is draw heavy, you have TPTK. Now is the time to play back. Reraise this to $5!
Turn: This is terrible again. After you called his reraise, you are pot commited. You can reraise all-in as well. But I would fold to his minraise. It is quite clear that he isn't afraid of a flush, and your play - calling him down so long - indicates a possible flush draw that you catched. If he isn't afraid of it, it's very very likely he has a flush or at least a set. You missed to chances to reraise him and you tried it when a possible flush had hit. In the future, you should play just the opposite way. Protect your hand BEFORE a possible flush hits and be prepared to FOLD after it hits!

AceLuby · #10 01-24-2007, 03:25 PM

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After you called his reraise, you are pot commited. You can reraise all-in as well. But I would fold to his minraise. It is quite clear that he isn't afraid of a flush, and your play - calling him down so long - indicates a possible flush draw that you catched

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2 things, first, if he's not afraid of the flush he must have it because nothing else beats it (on the turn). So do you think he has the flush?

2nd, the raise on the turn was not a minraise, but double a minraise (raise of 3.5, then a raise of 7)