100nl kk, the situation we all must face.

[D.L.M.]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

Button ($18.50)
SB ($47)
<font color="#C00000">BB ($118.90)</font>
UTG ($99.30)
UTG+1 ($103.35)
MP1 ($127.50)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($101.55)</font>
MP3 ($84.20)
CO ($91.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $16

ok. this is a situation that comes up for everyone atleast once in their poker career.
now my ? to you all is....
do you call or raise and how much
is this decision really villian dependant?
whats our plan for different flops if we decide to flat call or just reraise but not go ai.

this i think will be interesting

[HebbNH]

This could be villain dependent if you know he doesn't reraise PF with anything besides AA. Obviously, if you know that, then fold.

Barring that info, I raise to $50-$55. If he pushes, I probably fold, unless I know he's super aggro and would push JJ, QQ, or AK like this as well. If he just calls, I have a hard time putting him on AA and probably call if he pushes on a non A flop. If an A flops and he pushes, I think I vomit.

[nation]

I reraise in all situations, mostly for information. If a really tight player shoves, I can lay it down. I get value from a loose spewy player, and I want to have the betting lead because I'm OOP.

[brandysbich]

Whats the point in reraising to almost half your stack and then folding to a push. Personally I just get it all in if he shoves after a reraise, its just one of those times you got to pay off, you lose more money in the long run being a nit and folding to a shove. Besides this exact same situation will happen to you enough times to balance out where villain will pay you off.

Is this way of thinking wrong?

[D.L.M.]

nation you may have mis red. we are in position. the reason why this ? is soo interesting is becuase it is the situation in holdem where aa is the most likely to show up. any any other situatuion of betting and positions there could be reasons for other hands to show up. but a reraise from the bb into and utg raisor is most likely to show aa. you will however see other hands once in a while.

to the guy who said that we need a read that villian only raises aa from the bb.
i believe that it would be very difficult and take a huge hand sample size from any villian to substantiate that they raise aa and aa alone from the bb. think about it. i also dont use pokertracker. but i dont think hud displays speciially preflop blind tendency.

[HebbNH]

[ QUOTE ]
to the guy who said that we need a read that villian only raises aa from the bb. i believe that it would be very difficult and take a huge hand sample size from any villian to substantiate that they raise aa and aa alone from the bb. think about it. i also dont use pokertracker. but i dont think hud displays speciially preflop blind tendency.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say you need that read, but if you have it, use it. Obviously it wouldn't be a read that's easy to find when applied only when villain is in the BB. But, if you know the villain only raises w/ AA or KK in any position, it's not that tough to put them on AA. I could swear I saw a guy today that was something like 45/.2 over 300 or so hands. The only time he raised PF he went to showdown w/ AA. I'll see if I can find him in PT. (Yeah, I know 300 hands isn't that big of a sample, its just an example).

[BT2]

[ QUOTE ]
nation you may have mis red. we are in position. the reason why this ? is soo interesting is becuase it is the situation in holdem where aa is the most likely to show up. any any other situatuion of betting and positions there could be reasons for other hands to show up. but a reraise from the bb into and utg raisor is most likely to show aa. you will however see other hands once in a while.

to the guy who said that we need a read that villian only raises aa from the bb.
i believe that it would be very difficult and take a huge hand sample size from any villian to substantiate that they raise aa and aa alone from the bb. think about it. i also dont use pokertracker. but i dont think hud displays speciially preflop blind tendency.

[/ QUOTE ]


are you saying we should fold?

[Cry Me A River]

Hero is not UTG. (BTW, any reason we're not raising to $5 after a limper?)

Totally read dependant, however, I'm reraising this very, very seldomly - Only against complete LAGs who won't be scared into folding JJ. Or if villain is someone I have some kind of history with (he's been trying to push me around, or I've been pushing him around, or I've shown down some crap hand after an LP PFR and he's been berating me about it, or something like that).

I'd much rather call and get it all-in on any reasonable flop then give him a chance to get away from AK or QQ. Virtually every time I've seen two non-donkey full stacks get it all-in preflop at $100NL FR or above, the worst hand shown down is KK. Anything less folds and I really don't like being that KK guy so I need to know if villain is donkey or not.

If we just call his reraise villain will almost always be just as happy to get it all in on the flop because calling his reraise is almost always interpreted as weakness - we would surely come back over the top with AA/KK - and any bet/raise we make on the flop is a bluff. We may loose some value when an Ace hits the flop but I think that is more than compensated by all the times we don't scare QQ or JJ off preflop.

We need some kind of range on what villain is reraising. If we've been aggressive and villain is too, we're in late enough position villain could think we're raising light/stealing. OTOH, if villain has a PFR of .5 then "cheap showdown" is my middle name.

I usually call and bet out any flop. If there's an Ace on the flop and villain reraises then I'm done. If there's a Q on the flop and villain reraises I'm probly done too (read dependant, ie he's not playing AQ this way). Otherwise I'm generally reraising/pushing against any reraise unless villain is a nit. If he has AA, oh well, he's going to have AK/QQ/JJ/something else that looked pretty even more often.

[Renton]

call and extract.

Reraising is awful, because it blows him off TT-QQ, AQ+. It isn't like you are gonna reraise and fold to a push getting like 3:1, that would be bad.

[Jurrr]

Call and play poker assuming his reraising range is smaller than his PFR%. How much smaller is an interesting question - maybe 1/2 of PFR%?