25NL - QJs -- All-in on flop?

LearningCurve · #1 01-21-2007, 12:29 PM

Was looking over some of my old hands this morning trying to process what I'm learning from 2p2 and thinking about how to implement it.

No reads. Might should have folded to 3-bet pf but was thinking of my table image. Figured I'd see the flop and go from there.

Couldn't have asked for much better of a drawing flop. Didn't hit draw this time, but I am thinking more about long-term results here. Should I have crai on the flop? The call bought me a turn card and a river card too, but crai would have added the possibility of taking the pot right then to the possibility of draws. Would this have been the optimal line? Looks like I should have had FE here.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero ($15.60)
Button ($15.85)
SB ($24.75)
BB ($5.15)
UTG ($9.20)
MP1 ($22.90)
MP2 ($10.90)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to $1, Button raises to $2.5, 2 folds, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($5.35) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $3, Hero calls $3.

Turn: ($11.35) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($11.35) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $11.35

Berge20 · #2 01-21-2007, 12:55 PM

Observation: $15 in your stack --> why not rebuy up to $25?

Normally I prefer Bet-->3-bet AI, but your stack doesnt allow that really. CR AI is fine in this spot.

Albert Moulton · #3 01-21-2007, 12:59 PM

Fold to the reraise preflop. You are out of position. You have a decent hand, potentially, but it plays better in late position instead of OOP and heads up in a reraised pot.

I'd try for a check-raise all in on the flop. This is a great flop for you to get the money in on the flop.

I don't like check/call at all. Check-raise all-in gives you (1) max fold equity, and (2) a chance to get the money in while all your outs are still live if he calls. In fact, you will be a favorite over some of the hands that he'll call with.

Once you check/call, I don't see any problem checking it down after that. You could bluff at the river, but what are you representing? Villain might call you with Ace-high. As the hand played out, you just don't know if you have much fold equity. And you don't have a hand with just Q-high.

I really think you blew it on the flop if you were going to play this at all in a reraised pot. Get it in with the OESFD on the flop.

LearningCurve · #4 01-21-2007, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Observation: $15 in your stack --> why not rebuy up to $25?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I should have explained that. My stack was indicative of the fact that no 10NL table was available at the time. Although I dabble in the 25NL tables on occasion, I'm not confident enough with my skillset (nor should I be obviously...LOL) to play there with a full stack.

LearningCurve · #5 01-21-2007, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Fold to the reraise preflop. You are out of position. You have a decent hand, potentially, but it plays better in late position instead of OOP and heads up in a reraised pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

 Agree completely about playing this OOP. It isn't a fantastic hand even IP. Should have folded but was new to table and was more interested in table image than I probably should have been. Didn't want everyone to run all over my raises. Figured I c/f but then I saw the flop and... 

[ QUOTE ]
I really think you blew it on the flop if you were going to play this at all in a reraised pot. Get it in with the OESFD on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

 I agree my call was terrible, but I wasn't sure what else to do?! Didn't want to just fold with the combo draw, and at the time I didn't even have crai in my arsenal. 

I really appreciate your feedback. Responses like this one help immensely. Next time I'll do much better with this hand! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Mike Gallo · #6 01-21-2007, 01:59 PM

Didn't hit draw this time, but I am thinking more about long-term results here. Should I have crai on the flop?

You could have bet the flop to induce a raise and then shoved all in. You dont mind a big pot here because you could have up to 21 outs. Of course if the villian has ax Kx clubs, your way behind.

What range of hands did you put the villian on?

Did you consider a Q or J an out?

LearningCurve · #7 01-21-2007, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Didn't hit draw this time, but I am thinking more about long-term results here. Should I have crai on the flop?

You could have bet the flop to induce a raise and then shoved all in. You dont mind a big pot here because you could have up to 21 outs. Of course if the villian has ax Kx clubs, your way behind.

What range of hands did you put the villian on?

Did you consider a Q or J an out?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not great at handreading but am working to get better. With the 3-bet I generally expect to see AA or KK and less often AK. However, since I had just arrived I wasn't really sure. I didn't really think villain held a Q or J, but also didn't consider those as outs. If I was putting villain on AA or KK, I needed runner runner Q's, runner runner J's, or one of each to have felt confident there. And, yes, I also considered the fact that villain was holding AK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. This one seemed statistically unlikely noting I held two and there were two on the board, but you never know.

Mike Gallo · #8 01-21-2007, 02:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
With the 3-bet I generally expect to see AA or KK and less often AK. However, since I had just arrived I wasn't really sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

You raised from the cutoff. The button could raise here just to take the pot and control from you. Had you raised from ep, I might agree, however in this spot your giving the villian way too much credit.

nation · #9 01-21-2007, 02:44 PM

I haven't read any responses, but here's what I think.

I fold to the 3 bet preflop. You're oop, and even though he's a lp reraiser, his range is still very small. In full ring, people just don't 3 bet very light. The fact that you're OOP makes this even more of a fold imo.

As far as flop goes, I crai here. You are a favorite over almost all hands and possibly/probably have some fold equity. Get it all in, and be happy to do so.

-nation

Mike Gallo · #10 01-21-2007, 02:53 PM

In full ring, people just don't 3 bet very light.

In my experience at the live $1-$2 games in AC, players do tend to reraise liberally with position. Sometimes the blinds will reraise out of position because they feel the initial raiser is making a play at the pot.