99 OOP in a RR pot

allaboutmyfetti · #1 01-15-2007, 10:38 PM

Should I be playing this only for set value? I wasn't.

Villian is an 18/15/8 after 60 or so hands, no reads after that. this is the first time he's 3B me in the 30 or so hands at the table (i guess the other 30 hands were from another session).

Comments on all streets appreciated. The turn bet was both for protection against overs and a bluff against TT, JJ. I think the turn bet is spew, but I had sort of mentally committed to donking the turn. What about the flop call/float (is it a float if I could have have the best hand?)

Oh also, I've been pretty aggro at the table, but taking most pots down with c-bets or pf.
Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $53.80
UTG+1: $13.10
CO: $74.40
Button: $39.60
SB: $14.65
BB: $54.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG with 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 folds, CO raises to $6.5, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($13.75, 2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $8, Hero calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($29.75, 2 players)
Hero bets $18

JoshNjuice · #2 01-15-2007, 10:59 PM

I don't like check-calling that flop. I say pot it on the flop and go from there. If he raises after your PSB on the flop, you can consider dumping your hand. He could have c-bet with AK, AQs, TT, JJ, QQ, 88 and you have no way of knowing which hand he's betting.

I don't like the turn lead because of your flop check/call. You have no idea where you are and I think you gain as much info by checking to see what he does as you do by betting out.

Seems like you're not controlling the size of the pot in this hand. You've now put about $30 in the pot, you're out of position and you have no idea where you are in the hand.

JoshNjuice

Sir Winalot · #3 01-16-2007, 05:05 AM

Yeah, you can't call preflop purely for set value. I guess flop is ok, but I'm not sure about donking the turn. You'll probably fold out AK, but AQ just hit, so it's not going anywhere and I'm not so sure if JJ/TT will fold always.

SykoraG · #4 01-16-2007, 05:14 AM

Tough spot to be in, but I'm generally taking the same line on the flop (his 3bet range is more than likely (1010-AA / AK /AQs)

check the turn and see what he does. Only hand you're beating right now is Ace King.

Hail Eris · #5 01-16-2007, 05:41 AM

I'd just fold PF because (a) you opened UTG and (b) you're OOP.

Once the Q hits, half of the range that you were beating pulls ahead, so there's really no point continuing with the hand unless you're sure he's 3betting light.

fwiw I don't know if he's going to fold TT/JJ here considering your image is aggro and your line looks pretty suspect.

LearningCurve · #6 01-16-2007, 06:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, you can't call preflop purely for set value. I guess flop is ok, but I'm not sure about donking the turn. You'll probably fold out AK, but AQ just hit, so it's not going anywhere and I'm not so sure if JJ/TT will fold always.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sir WinAlot,

I'm still trying to get the 5/10 (3/8) Rule figured out. If following the 5/10, isn't the pfr within our "calling" zone when playing for sets since the raised amount is less than 10% of our stack? Not sure exactly on the 8%, but even that one is very close I think.

Am I correct, or still confused? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Thanks...

Genz · #7 01-16-2007, 06:11 AM

I'm thinking about a c/r on the flop and folding to a push. But I have no idea about what to do if villain flat calls. Fire again on the turn or check/fold? Any ideas / comments on a c/r line? I'm trying to incorporate it more in my play, but I'm not sure if this is a good spot. We raised preflop so a big PP is well within our range and this is a flop that is just lovely for big PPs so he might fold big overs like AK, AQ and maybe even TT, JJ.

Sir Winalot · #8 01-16-2007, 07:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Sir WinAlot,

I'm still trying to get the 5/10 (3/8) Rule figured out. If following the 5/10, isn't the pfr within our "calling" zone when playing for sets since the raised amount is less than 10% of our stack? Not sure exactly on the 8%, but even that one is very close I think.

Am I correct, or still confused? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Thanks...

[/ QUOTE ]
Over 8 is never call, and under 3 is always call. Anything inbetween we decide ourselves. We're calling about 9% of our stack on the raise so I wouldn't call here. The closer it gets to 8 the less I'm inclined to call.

But here I could maybe call with something like 7-8% because villain is likely to be raising with very strong hands and unlikely to let them go post-flop unless the board gets really awfull. But 9% is too much.

LearningCurve · #9 01-16-2007, 07:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Sir WinAlot,

I'm still trying to get the 5/10 (3/8) Rule figured out. If following the 5/10, isn't the pfr within our "calling" zone when playing for sets since the raised amount is less than 10% of our stack? Not sure exactly on the 8%, but even that one is very close I think.

Am I correct, or still confused? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Thanks...

[/ QUOTE ]
Over 8 is never call, and under 3 is always call. Anything inbetween we decide ourselves. We're calling about 9% of our stack on the raise so I wouldn't call here. The closer it gets to 8 the less I'm inclined to call.

But here I could maybe call with something like 7-8% because villain is likely to be raising with very strong hands and unlikely to let them go post-flop unless the board gets really awfull. But 9% is too much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay, that definitely helps. I wondered what the point of the range was and had never seen it explained until now. Thank you!

Regarding the OP, if not playing for set value, would you find a fold for 99 pf in a reraised pot against unknown villain? Not sure whether that's too weak. However, seems like it's behind much, although certainly not all, of what's raised pf. If any overcard hits (assuming no 9 on the flop), and villain makes a healthy c-bet aren't we kind of stumped as to what to do next? LOL -- it may just be me who's stumped!

Thoughts anyone?

Panthro · #10 01-16-2007, 09:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Regarding the OP, if not playing for set value, would you find a fold for 99 pf in a reraised pot against unknown villain? Not sure whether that's too weak. However, seems like it's behind much, although certainly not all, of what's raised pf. If any overcard hits (assuming no 9 on the flop), and villain makes a healthy c-bet aren't we kind of stumped as to what to do next? LOL -- it may just be me who's stumped!

Thoughts anyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the time I fold PPs < TT PF OOP facing a 3-bet if I'm not playing for set value, especially against a very aggo villain who is very capable of floating/double barelling. It's also unlikely we're getting to showdown cheaply.

-donking the flop is OK, but if he's capable floating/raising with air then we don't get any information by betting.
-c/c'ing flop, then c/f'ing turn is standard against many villains, but blows against aggromonkeys who will religiously double barrel if checked to.
-c/r'ing the flop is expensive when you're behind, and leaves you in a pickle if he smooth calls(do we fire again on the turn or c/f??)