KJ against a pf raiser

[Riku]

Villain was quite new to the table but seemed tightish.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.05/$0.1
10 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 5 folds, CO calls, Button calls, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, Hero calls, UTG calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (10SB, 5 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, Hero raises ?

[Befolder]

Well what range do we put him on?

It could be a lot of things.

99-AA, AK-AJs, AK-AK, KQs-JTs, Axs (if he's one of those types to build a bit pot.

So we're ahead of a lot, but I've put a pretty wide range out there. Wider than I raise with in this situation.

I'd be inclined to raise to knock out the field even if we're behind.

Board is nice and dry but I doubt it's correct to just call down since we want to maximize our chances of winning now.

If it were heads up, I'd just call every bet he'd put in, thus maximizing our gain if ahead and not letting him fold earlier if he's behind.

[nerdking]

hero raises and reevaluates on the turn. A raise forces the remaining field to put either 2 in cold or to repop, thus giving you even more info.

[Big Folder]

if he is tightish and understands position you could be dominated with an offsuit hand which sucks.

On the flop you have to raise. You have to protect in this situation and you'll face the field with 12:2 odds which should drop out/make calling unprofitable for tons of draws. You have to raise and if he three-bets then you get worried.

[Point Blank]

I think if you have an issue with raising the flop here, then I don't think you should be calling SB's raise with this hand.

you have top pair on a really dry board (what more did you want when you called) ... or, are you thinking that raising here isn't really 'protecting' your hand, given the size of the pot? ...

[00Snitch]

i think befolder got it. this is a raise. pot is big, so you want to do what you can to win it.

however, i think the range you have given may be a bit too broad for an unknown raising from the SB. 99? hrmmm, maybe. Axs? JTs? AJ? i think more people would complete those hands than raise them.

i would probably narrow it a little to something like AA-TT (TT might even be out), AK-AQ. possibly KQ. now, im pretty sure most of those hands (maybe not AQ) would cbet this flop.

ok, so im being a nit, but it makes sense yes?

given that range (most of which you are ahead of, might need a litte adjusting for AQ and TT not always being in the range) and that the pot is big and that you want to protect your hand, i raise.

i think we call a 3-bet and fold the turn UI.

if our raise is just called, i guess we bet if checked to on the turn and fold to a c/r?

if we bet the turn and are called, i think the river will also be a b/f.

so our possible lines will be:

raise-call -&gt; fold UI
raise -&gt; b/f -&gt; b/f

if our flop raise doesnt get it HU, it could be interesting. i would be a bit concerned about someone cold-calling two on this flop after we raise.

[00Snitch]

[ QUOTE ]
are you thinking that raising here isn't really 'protecting' your hand, given the size of the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

i think a raise protects against many potential holdings. A5-A2 spring to mind.

however, if this pot was small, i think calling (to build the pot) is an option.

[unterfish]

[ QUOTE ]
however, if this pot was small, i think calling (to build the pot) is an option.


[/ QUOTE ]
Im not sure. I think our hand is vulnerable. I dont know if building a pot here is heros goal.

[00Snitch]

[ QUOTE ]

I dont know if building a pot here is heros goal


[/ QUOTE ]

there isnt really much point in talking about "building a pot" with the given hand (because the pot is already built [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). so i shouldn't have really brought it up...

but what im trying to get at is: if the pot was smaller, say not raised pf, i think it would be better to call because hands like i mentioned (A5-A2, or anthing down to around 5-6 outs) are getting incorrect odds to call, so we want them to. i.e. our hand is not vulnerable to those hands if the pot was small, because they are drawing incorrectly (should they choose to call).

in the given hand (big pot), or hand is vulnerable to hands with 5 or 6 outs because they are getting correct odds to call one bet. therefore we raise and make it unprofitable for them to call.

i hope im getting this right... [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[unterfish]

I agree. This is getting very hypothetical.
If the pot was small, I guess I would still raise in hope to isolate SB and buy a better position.
(But Im not so sure if my line is right.)