Turny razz hand - looking for comments

[trickyAAA]

I don't normally play a 9, but in this case I did. I felt like I was in control. this turned out to be my losingest hand in this turny, and if I had saved these chips, I would have almost definitely made the FT (I went out around 14th). The more I look at this hand, it seems that the only bets that I should have made were the ones on third (possibly because of the pot odds) and the one on where I put him on a nine. I don't think the villian's play was stellar either. Did I make a big mistake here or does this play seem reasonable - not as something to do all the time, but as a deceptive play where I am using my board to try to winn the hand. Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks!!!

Razz ($1,000/$2,000), Ante $200, Bring-In $300 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in

4th Street - (2.60 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 3: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 7: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds

5th Street - (2.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

6th Street - (4.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets

River - (6.30 BB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] xx___raises
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___calls

Total pot: (10.30 BB)

[Alchemist]

Can you post the stack sizes?

[trickyAAA]

Seat1 - 30,770
Seat 2 - 12,452
Seat 3 - 8253
Seat 4 - 20,091
hero - 12,664
Seat 6 - 22,316
Seat 7 - 14,568

[LandonM]

I railed you in that tourney from about #30 to when you went out in the $$. IMO, you played a great, great game against those opponents.

The only thing I would've done differently, from a strategic standpoint, was to get into more pots with Seat 1, who was obviously over representing his boards whenever he had the chance, since that table was letting him get away with murder.

He was capable of making laydowns when he got played back at and your image was solid enough that if you played at him with a solid start-card, then improved your board even a little bit on 4th, he'd have folded to your raise and allowed you to take down a few juicy pots when the bets were as big as they were. Of course, you couldn't have done this too often, but the right frequency, particularly when he was in steal position with strong upcards, he would've given up a lot of free money.

Guys like that are dangerous and give the 'Mathies' fits, since they're in a lot more pots and betting their boards more than anything, but they're ATM's if you know how to play them right.

[trickyAAA]

Landon - thanks for the advice. You are right, I should have asserted with seat 1. He was VPIP well over 50%, but he did make lay downs when someone played back. I am sure I could have found opportunities to make this play if I was looking for them. I think I must have been a little too focused on trying to get my chips in at a good spot, and I wasn't thinking about making moves like you describe. One dimensional thinking like that is not a good habit to form in this game, so I really appreciate you watching and pointing this out. because while I probably would have done this type of thing

I think this is a good example of why it is very helpful to have others provide criticism and ideas on your play.
Thanks again for the good advice.

[Andy B]

Razz isn't my game, and tournaments aren't my forte. While I don't think the call on third is bad, as such, it did lead to you investing most of your stack with a dubious hand.

[trickyAAA]

Thanks for the input Andy. This was one of those hands that you kind of get stuck to. I am still trying to figure out when I could have let it go given the call on third.

[LandonM]

Against that butthead in S1 who just called the bring, with those bets/antes and those stack sizes, I think you were wise to play as you did. There is absolutely, positively no doubt in my mind that he would've raised if he were 3 strong to the bottom, so his "call" with an up-2 pretty much says he isn't that strong, given his game-play history (maybe a pocketed 4,5 or 6 with a high rag and an up 2- he showed a great willingness to play a lot of two card hands like that, and he always "called" with them when he wasn't in the stealing position).

The only thing I might have done differently would've been to reraise 5th street and forced him to define. That would put you in great position to take down the pot on 6th should he have caught bad, since we are pretty confident that he started with two low and a bad 6th would've forced him to fold (which we know he is capable of doing).

If he he RR's back, then you have a real decision to make with your low 9 on 5th street, but that one bet potentially saves you two (calling down 6th and 7th) and allows you to live another day should you decide to fold.

If he just calls the raise, you know for sure that your chips are in good with your live nine on 5th- ya can't ask for much more than that against a dude like him.

[trickyAAA]

Thanks for the analysis Landon. Your suggestion is very good and I think that would have been a better play than the one I made.

[SGspecial]

What did he turn up at showdown? a 653?