AJ TPTK vs TAG

Trix · #1 01-12-2007, 04:57 PM

Both our stats are about 20/15, he is regular and probably does pretty well. I dont really have any solid reads on him.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($642.10)
CO ($669.50)
Button ($389.35)
SB ($174.45)
BB ($685.50)
UTG ($666)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $3.
1 fold, Hero raises to $21, CO calls $21, 3 folds.

Flop: ($51) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $36, CO raises to $115, Hero ?

Tempest122 · #2 01-12-2007, 05:27 PM

I think this is a pretty easy fold and im a calling station.

callme · #3 01-12-2007, 05:37 PM

I think its a fold - that doesnt mean he has anything only position, but i think thats enough. I do this with draws, sets, overpairs, total air... but since you are OOP its very difficult.

Snipe · #4 01-12-2007, 05:55 PM

I don't necessarily think it's an auto fold, particularly in the absence of agression / draw tendencies / general trickiness. It's a pretty drawy board with villain in position. Would he play a set like this? Would he raise with 99/TT to figure out where he was at?

I think I call and re-evaluate on the turn.

JrJordan · #5 01-12-2007, 07:02 PM

Ugh folding is just too weak on this board. All of the two pair hands seem unreasonable for a 20/15 to cold call an MP raise. Overpairs will reraise you preflop, so that just leaves 88/66 as the most likely hands that beat you. Countering this, he could have JT, two hearts, a lower J (though a lot of people will just call with this) or maybe even a weak pair with a bunch of backdoor outs like 8h7x or 8h9x. I'm calling the flop to evaluate on the turn. If a rag hits, I'll try to CRAI (though there's a risk he checks through). If a scare card hits I can fold with a bit more confidence to another pot sized bet.

Trix · #6 01-12-2007, 07:56 PM

Didn´t think I could fold to the raise, just wanted to make sure, so anyway, called the raise, turn came 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], I check and he bets 165 into 280ish and I folded..
Not really sure if that line is optimal as I´d often just push if I have a flushdraw on the flop, so it´s pretty easy for him to bluff scarecards like that.

Thoughts on pushing the flop ?

callme · #7 01-12-2007, 08:17 PM

Did i get this right? You think of pushing flop with above hand?

Out of his possible holdings you are only in front of 99,TT and complete air, all other hand beats you like 9hTh, 88,66, JJ with absolutly no fold equity against this hands.

I think a push on the flop would only accomplish that you risk a lot of money for only a small-medium pot - persoanlly i don´t like the idea unless you can pot villain here on a very very narrow range.

If a non-scarecard would have hit on the turn and he would have fired again would you have called there again or pushed?

Snipe · #8 01-12-2007, 08:47 PM

I think the turn fold is good.

Callme: I think what he meant was that if he had TPTK and NFD (6s instead of 6h), he would have shoved the flop.

Or actually, re-reading it, maybe he's saying his standard line is to shove the flop with the FD? Er......

Jamougha · #9 01-12-2007, 09:02 PM

How do people claim that they fold tptk here? Poeple don't even fold midde pair to me here.

Trix · #10 01-13-2007, 03:05 PM

No, I mean pushing this hand. Also meant that I might push with a heart draw, which means it gets very easy for him to second barrel a heart if I just call with TPTK to see what comes on the turn.
I would probably check-raise allin on the turn if it blanked, but I´m not really sure if it´s optimal.

If people always just fold to this flopraise oop, dont it make it really easy for your opponents to coldcall you preflop and raise basicly any flop or are you ok with that and just assume that it doesn´t happy anyway and try to adjust when you start suspecting someone may be exploiting this ?