Isn't this an obvious NL tell?

[Passaman]

I was reading the thread on C-bets, and to me, a pot-sized insto-bet by the raiser is basically saying "I don't want a call." I've found it quite profitable simply re-raising here...of course given the player I'm against. Any thoughts?

[Sean Fraley]

You're life is going to suck until you realize that it often can also mean "I flopped two pair or better and am trying very hard to get all of my chips in the middle".

[Passaman]

Don't get me wrong, Sean....if the flopped missed me, too altogether, I fold. But if I've got middle pair with top or second-kicker....I'll tell ya', I'm tempted.

[alanbrown]

You'll find that people will adapt to you fairly quickly if you do that and that you'll end up getting tempted again on the turn and then you'll wonder how the Hell You Ever Got Here by the time you see the river. And as turn bets get larger than the flop bets you can get yourself into a sticky policy if you call just because you think they'll fold. I know that if I see a player calling pot sized bets on the flop then I'll make pot sized bets at him when I want a call. This becomes even more true if I then see them fold on the turn. That would be an important data point for me.

Betting more money when you have the worst hand won't serve you well in the long run.

That said, I agree that people who make pot bets on the flop must be played back at sometimes and that in doing so you may very well push them off the hand.

[alanbrown]

Another point. I'll frequently make a pot sized bet with top pair and weak kicker as I generally find that it pushes second pair off, so if you called me you may well be able to push me off with a second best hand. As long as you picked the time I was making the bet with top pair and weak kicker and as long as you had the cahones to take the initiative on the turn if I checked to you. I still think it's a losing policy in general though I agree it will pay dividends against players who stab at flops reflexively.

[Passaman]

Thanks Alan....to be clear, it just screams "I missed and I don't want a call." But I pick my raises judiciously, based on player and, especially, what I am holding. Just wondered if anyone else felt it seemed like a tell. I will bank your advice though. Thanks.

[GiantBuddha]

This isn't a tell. With some players, it can be a telling betting sequence. A tell would be how they put the chips in the pot. Personally, I usually bet the pot with hands I want to get called (or raised) with and half the pot with hands I missed the flop with or am drawing with. About a third of the time, I'll flip this or bet somewhere in the middle, or overbet or underbet. So I'm usually betting more with the better hand, but not always.

Know your opponents. That knowledge will serve you well. If the betting habits you described fit a particular player, then you have a massively profitable situation/read. They've basically got it backwards. But assuming most players play this way could turn out to be very expensive indeed.

[Mhoram]

I'd also say it's more likely to be a hand not wanting a call if the board is uncoordinated.

If I flop two pair or better on a two suit flop I know that almost all players will call 1/2 pot on the flop with a nut flush draw because 1/2 pot at this point is pretty small, so I often raise 3/4 or even pot since that seems to be about the line where they often call and sometimes fold, meaning i'm right at the spot where they are making the biggest possible mistake by calling and any more would be forcing them to play correctly by folding.

This is small stakes btw.

[Red_Diamond]

[ QUOTE ]
I was reading the thread on C-bets, and to me, a pot-sized insto-bet by the raiser is basically saying "I don't want a call."

[/ QUOTE ]

Strange. To me it more often than not means "I have a very big over-pair you Ass-Hole! Come and call me."

[jah7_fsu1]

It's not a tell against the majority of players who will pot the flop with strong or weak hands. If everytime someone C-bets (assuming you aren't up against complete donks) you reraise you will lose a lot of money.