In too deep

Scotty. · #1 01-11-2007, 02:28 PM

BB is 35/25 over ~400 hands and I don't know much more about him other than that.
Button is 60/10 over 30 hands and again, don't know anything more.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls.

Flop: (8.50 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, Button calls, BB calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls, Button raises, BB folds, Hero calls.

River: (15.25 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.25 BB

Ok, so I don't feel very good about this. How would we go about this one?

Buckmulligan · #2 01-11-2007, 02:42 PM

The turn is close to a fold I think but as played i also call the river

TomBrooks · #3 01-11-2007, 02:57 PM

I was going to say probably fold to BBs turn donk and definately to Button's turn raise.

But BB turns out to be a whacko when he folds to Button's turn raise.

Maybe Button knows BB is a whacko.

I think you can fold, but this hand is too weird so maybe call.

danzasmack · #4 01-11-2007, 03:06 PM

Are you a KWS fan?

Getting 16.25 - 1 this still looks like a fold on the river. I love putting this thread next to the myriad of "i make a monster lay down" threads in the SH forums lately. That's pretty much the WORST river card for you. This should be like 77/88 pretty much every time. Truth be told the Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] shouldn't have changed much about his hand because he cold calls the flop and then pops the turn, which really looks more like a set. Or 9T. I guess if he ever slowplays 78 here that's fine but i DOUBT anyone bets that on the river.

I would consider this a "sick beat" (i talk outloud when i play sometimes) and fold without feeling bad. But I guess calling - you're maybe good 1/30? I dunno, isn't THAT bad.

milesdyson · #5 01-11-2007, 03:12 PM

The fact that it's a heart is of little importance because hearts would not make that turn raise. I also don't think a single pair of queens raises the turn after the flop action very much, so you didn't get sucked out by trips. It also counterfeits lower two pair hands like J8, J7, (which I expect to take this line very often) and also 87, so I think it's very far from the worst river card.

danzasmack · #6 01-11-2007, 03:28 PM

yeah if you read through i actually completely contradict myself. I wrote one post and then changed the whole thing.

The only bad thing is that he still bets that rver.

milesdyson · #7 01-11-2007, 03:31 PM

Yeah, but I think a lot of people put the final bet in there with the counterfeited hands. Some people just don't realize what just happened, and others are just so pissed off that they just got owned that they bet out of frustration.

I don't feel happy about calling the river, but I would make the turn call hoping to counterfeit some two pair hands, and I did so on this river. Obviously I'd rather see the 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], but I think this is enough help at 16:1.

justkevin · #8 01-11-2007, 03:44 PM

Flop: Cap is good.

Turn: When the button comes alive here you're in trouble. A straight seems most likely, but I could also believe QJ,77 or 88. Getting 14:1 I'd call.

River: I can't imagine you're ahead here-- this is almost never a bluff. But I couldn't fold this either.

sharpie · #9 01-11-2007, 03:52 PM

I would probably call the flop 3 bet to pop the turn, although that would've gotten me in trouble in this hand. I don't see how else to play the turn/river in a pot of this size.

noob_sauce · #10 01-11-2007, 05:06 PM

I tend to grossly overplay this... people are suggesting you fold to the turn donk when I tend to raise it...

I think as played when buttons raise folds the donk, I enter call down mode... if donk calls much easier to fold...

puke all over the river card and call down due to pot size...