Congratulations! You just became the manager of a Vegas poker room!

[*TT*]

Congratulations! You just became the manager of a Vegas poker room! This room is one of the top rooms in the city, well respected for the quality of dealers and the comfort of the room. BUT - its not the Bellagio which has a guaranteed player base at all limits regardless of how the room is run - and that’s where you need to put on your management hat.

The Goal: Establish a daily 30/60 game that runs nearly around the clock within a 6 month period.

The Variance: At the same time as the 30/60 is trying to get established, a small group of 5-10 players have congregated almost every evening to play 20/40 to 40/80- rotation games. This same group of players would play in the 30/60 limit Hold'em if enticed to start short games because they are all shorthanded online pros who want to play rotation just to blow off steam.

The Must Move Rule: Must Move tables are defined as 1 hour long, after which the floor will maintain the vitality of the game through seating decisions manually.

The Headache: Both locals and tourists hate short games... they need to be trained to not be fearful of them, or provide other incentives. Generally once a table is established it will fill up within the hour, but in Vegas it’s common to wait till a list is 12-15 people deep occurs before calling a new table and even then you’re lucky if the game starts because so many players wonder away due to frustration. Part of the marketing goal must be to encourage players who are willing to start short handed games, and conversely make changes so games aren’t started only when the list is long enough.

What would you do to establish this game, attracting both locals and tourists to your card room? This is a real world scenario; you don't have a blank check so please provide real world answers that work in the long run, not just for this six month period. When providing your answers also discuss the ramifications of your marketing strategy both on your existing player base and the overall market (with every action there is always a reaction). Some options might include reduced rake, props who receive "rakeback" when starting short games, a time period where everyone at the table who starts a short game receives rake amnesty, entry into tournaments or other incentives. Also think out of the box; recommend new ideas that haven't been discussed before such as short handed lessons - even if it’s a bit out there because this is a brainstorming experiment. The real world management of a room in Vegas is watching this thread (it doesn’t matter which one so lets not turn the thread into a guessing game ok?); it should prove to be a very enlightening B&M topic!

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[Coffee]

1)Establish a certain level at which poker players are considered in the same vein as the high-level gamblers...poker rate, platinum cards, etc. Work hard to abolish the implied notion that casinos look down on the poker players...the days when poker was relegated to the back room, if at all, are gone.

2)Provide incentives for your platinum card gamblers who normally don't play poker to go play the 30/60...say, double comp points or ratings for the blackjack, slots, and craps whales. It shouldn't be hard to determine who the big donators to the table games are...give them an incentive to play 30/60...not all will, because the action is too slow, but if enough come over, it will render the 30/60 soft enough to support consistent play.

3)Start a feature called the "Shorthanded Spew" or something like that. Have an amount of money set aside(say $1000). From the time the 30/60 starts, have a clock running. For every minute(or two, or five), take away $25 from the set aside. Once the table fills up...either the set aside gets dumped into the first full ring pot, or distributed evenly amongst the ten players. Doing this would inspire people to call their friends and hurry them to get to the game, because the quicker it fills, the more money they can get.

4)If possible, ally the room with a known pro.

5)Do any sort of tie-in possible for the WSOP. Most people know poker from it. Pitch it along the lines of this is the best place for side action after you bust out.

6)Perhaps a poker room chef or kitchen would be a good investment for all levels of the games. Having unbeatable food that you could only get in the poker room might be enough to draw some of the locals away.

7)Establish a "dealer calls it" aspect of the game. Post many variations of games on the wall, and let the person on the button decide which game it is for that hand. Pitch it as the "Your home game away from your home game."

[Bicycles_Biatch]

You're going to get 100 posts about free food, free this, free that... but all you need to do is this.

5 players or less dealt in... NO RAKE. End of story. "pro's" and seasoned "locals" will do just about anything to play a no-rake game.

They did this at The Bike for 2 months and in no time at all they had x4 20-40 games and x1-2 30-60 games going at ALL times.

Sometimes the 30-60 game would be going 3 handed for hours on Sunday A.M. will no income to the casino; but it would keep the game going around the clock and by 10a.m. the game was always full. I truly believe more people spent more time there cause they new they could get an earlier start on their limit games and then look around and feel out the no-limit action.

They got away from this about 6 months ago, and now the place is pretty slow.

[NickMPK]

In terms of giving high-limit players extra comps or a reduced rake or whatever, I don't really understand why a poker room would have any incentive to do this. Why do they even care about whether they have high limit games, unless they are drawing celebrities that bring other people into the poker room? These games hardly generate any more in rake than low limit games, right?

In fact, it seems like the casino would want to discourage whales from playing poker, where they are likely to lose their money to other players rather than the casino.

[Yo Adrians!]

[ QUOTE ]
In terms of giving high-limit players extra comps or a reduced rake or whatever, I don't really understand why a poker room would have any incentive to do this. Why do they even care about whether they have high limit games, unless they are drawing celebrities that bring other people into the poker room? These games hardly generate any more in rake than low limit games, right?

In fact, it seems like the casino would want to discourage whales from playing poker, where they are likely to lose their money to other players rather than the casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's not the point. Your 'job', so to speak, is to get a regular 30/60 game going.

So unless you have suggestion ...

[*TT*]

I'd like to amend the job description by adding once the 30/60 game is thriving and it lasts long after the WSOP leaves town, the next goal is to establish a 60/120 game that runs every day from 5PM to late night. The same strategies will be employed.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In terms of giving high-limit players extra comps or a reduced rake or whatever, I don't really understand why a poker room would have any incentive to do this. Why do they even care about whether they have high limit games, unless they are drawing celebrities that bring other people into the poker room? These games hardly generate any more in rake than low limit games, right?

In fact, it seems like the casino would want to discourage whales from playing poker, where they are likely to lose their money to other players rather than the casino.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's not the point. Your 'job', so to speak, is to get a regular 30/60 game going.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you, you were just promoted to shift manager for your loyalty and dedication to the poker room.

TT [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

[SplawnDarts]

Good question - I've been thinking about how to make this work myself. Here's what I came up with, and this could be applied to starting any game, not just 30/60 LTH:

1) On the board, have players indicate whether they will play short or not. Furthermore, establish a relationship with your shorthanded-happy players, where they get some kind of minor bonus comp in return for one simple act: taking their name off the list if they leave or get into another game they like more. If you make friends with them, and get games happening that they want to play in, they WILL help you out in return. The comp just shows you care. That way, at least the short-handed part of your list will usually be accurate.

2) Start games earlier - 4 actually present short-handed players is enough to go. Offer reduced rake/fee of some sort for any game under 5.

3) Have exactly 2 props on staff willing to play pretty much anything you might seriously consider spreading. If you get even one definitely-present non-shorthanded player for one of the shorthanded games, put both props in that game so that the coward makes it seven. Most people will play at seven, especially if you only put nine chairs at new tables so it doesn't look too empty.

4) Now here's where it gets tricky, because at this point, you've probably got the toughest game at that limit in town, what with 4 likely-pros and 2 props. That one guy is at serious risk, and with him your game. The good news is you've got a running near-full game. My experience is that running games tend to fill up at reasonable hours once you get them started, so you should be able to get the props out pretty fast which will make the game a little softer.

5) Repeat the process for 2/5 PLO or 5/10 NLTH or 20/40 HOSE or whatever you want to get going next.


FWIW, if you take my advice, I will pitch a tent in your cardroom and never leave next time I go to vegas. I don't think I would be alone - there are a lot of people who don't want to wait for games and aren't afraid to play shorthanded.

[guids]

make the 30/60 an overs game or a kill game, to establish some regulars who would play in the bigger game, then when you see there is a consistent number of overs players start the 60/120.

[MicroBob]

Bicycles' point seems a good one as best I can tell.

Seems unlikely to me that there would be a room with a bunch of 4/8 tables and one 30/60 table.

So to do this you would need to also have 8/16 and 15/30 thriving as well, wouldn't you? Thus the correct strategy needs to keep those games going as well which isn't exactly a given in many Vegas rooms afaik.


Also - with the popularity of NL these days (thus the decreasing popularity of limit) I'm not sure this is a very realistic venture anyway.

Sorry TT, I guess I'm fired.