11$t- AJo TPTK to aggressive?

eiseC · #1 01-10-2007, 01:26 PM

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t30/t60
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t4060
UTG+1: t2080
MP1: t2420
MP2: t2820
Hero: t1880
MP3: t1810
Button: t3260
SB: t1500
BB: t1980

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t60 (pot was t90), 2 folds, Hero calls t60 (pot was t150), Button raises to t120, 2 folds, UTG+1 calls t60 (pot was t330), Hero calls t60 (pot was t390).

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t450, 3 players)
UTG+1 bets t120, Hero raises to t360, Button calls t360 (pot was t930), UTG+1 folds.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t1290, 2 players)
Hero bets t800, Button calls t800 (pot was t2090).

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t2890, 2 players)
Hero is all-in t600, Button calls t600 (pot was t3490).

Results:
Final pot: t4090

PF i can be a fold but i think a call is ok here.

DevinLake · #2 01-10-2007, 01:39 PM

Well, this hand is a perfect illustration of why calling preflop is NOT 'ok'.

Whenever you making a decision on how to play a hand, you have to think about how the hand plays best. AJo plays best in raised, heads-up pots. It plays bad in multiway pots. So, what does calling accomplish? That's right, a multiway pot where AJo plays bad.

So, once you've called, button decides to donk his hand up as well with a min raise. So, now you are forced to call again. Now we are seeing how one marginal decision can quickly start to get you into a bad spot. You are now in a largish multiway pot out of position with a hand that only plays well HUs.

Flop: Dream flop. You got your wish, TPTK. So, now what? Well, it's multiway, so it's going to be hard to avoid playing a big pot. Which, is usually something you don't want to do with this type hand out of position.

Now, UTG+1 leads out at you. Not necessarily that scary, but he is leading into two opponents, one of which is the preflop aggressor. So, I'd probably just call this small bet, to see what the Button is going to do and gain some relative position in the hand.

However, being multi-way on a board that has some draws, raising isn't a bad option. However, now that you've raised and been called by the button, you need to slow down.

Button raised preflop and the raise and re-raise on the flop didn't scare him off. I'm in c/f mode from here on out.

As played, I think you might as well stick your last little bit of chips in on the river hoping he's been playing KJ/QJ/JT or TT like this.

Sparta45 · #3 01-10-2007, 02:05 PM

Do what Devin says....

eiseC · #4 01-10-2007, 02:13 PM

very big thx for this advice DevinLake. After your post i thought about it and i think u are right about folding PF here, because 1. i'm a multi tabler and 2. it's not the best hand to play in a multiway pot and against a UTG limper and early in the tournament i don't want to raise big here, so folding is the best.

At flop i made 2 mistakes in my thread. I didn't think about the Button and gave the UTG no respect in his bet (but i think most of the time i'm ahead against him -> in HU!!). The call which u mention would also be the best play here, look what the button will do and won't commit me to the pot.
The Turn and River is well overplayed... How u said -> c/f mode.

Sparta45 · #5 01-10-2007, 02:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
very big thx for this advice DevinLake. After your post i thought about it and i think u are right about folding PF here,

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you misinterpreted his advice. He said not to call....but he did not say to fold either. I think he was suggesting that you raise pf.

Tell me if I'm wrong Devin.

Sparta45 · #6 01-10-2007, 02:26 PM

Actually....UTG + 1 limped, so maybe he didn't mean raise....but I still don't think he was telling you to fold. I think he just meant that if you are going to play the hand....raise it pf.

eiseC · #7 01-10-2007, 02:28 PM

but raising vs a UTG limper, make it 4BB and a big pot with a decent hand?... don't think so.

DevinLake · #8 01-10-2007, 02:36 PM

It's read dependent. I would raise a loose limper, fold if I didn't know him or knew him to be tight. But, the jist is, I'm not calling.

jafeather · #9 01-10-2007, 02:41 PM

Instead of talking about your AJ and the decisions that were made based on your cards, I'd like to comment on your bet structure.

I really don't like the amount you chose to bet on the turn. It shows that you weren't thinking about the next round of betting if you got there. You have 1400 chips and a 1,290 pot. By betting out 800 (a reasonable bet if you only consider the current pot size) you are completely disregarding "what happens next?" You have left yourself with only 600 chips (less than your previous bet amount,) and, if called, create a pot of nearly 3,000.

If you are committed to betting the turn, then I suggest pushing it (if you're committed....you could take another path). It only slightly overbets the pot. It also creates a little extra FE that 800 doesn't (2 ways - a bigger bet, and saying "Hey, I'm willing to go broke here!") It also keeps you from from being committed to a puny bet/call scenario on the river where you have absolutely zero FE against any hand villian's played like this.

mmorpg · #10 01-10-2007, 07:21 PM

fold pf