8-16 - more checking behind

[n.s.]

I'm posting this because this is rarely how I play these sort of hands, but I think maybe it was right here.

Playing 8 handed right now.

MP is a straightforward player - plays a basic TAG game, maybe a little on the weak-tight side post-flop.

BB is a strong, thinking player, but he tends to tilt a little and plays too many hands in general. He likes to get into pots with people and try to outplay them with tight, hyper-aggressive play. He's not the sort of player that will usually check-call down when he's out of position - he tends to bet out or check-raise when he is going to see a showdown.

PF Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="red">Hero raises</font>, 3 folds, <font color="red">MP 3-bets</font>, 2 folds, BB calls, <font color="red">Hero caps</font>, MP calls, BB calls.

Flop Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img](3 players, 12 SB)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets</font>, MP folds, BB calls.

Turn K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img](2 players, 7 BB)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img](2 players, 7 BB)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Standard? Too weak?

[Fianchetto]

Bet the turn. You can check behind on the river if called.

As played, you probably have a value bet on the river.

[James.]

take the river to valuetown.

[metalpest]

I don't mind it so much. Based on your read, BB will either bet the river, CR, or fold, and I don't think he will toss a hand which has you beat it you bet, nor will he call with a hand which has you beat, so value betting can only cost you money.

I'm putting him on a 7 when he check-calls the flop, probably with a 3-flush (unless you think he would check-call top pair, depends on your read, but I think hyper-aggressive would bet or raise with top pair). You said he can play too many hands, would K7s be in that range for 2 bets cold in the BB? If not, then a bet on the turn is good because I think you are taking the pot here if he misses two pair or the flush card.

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
take the river to valuetown.

[/ QUOTE ]

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet the turn. You can check behind on the river if called.

As played, you probably have a value bet on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
take the river to valuetown.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would your answer change if we take it as a given that I have to call down a check-raise (on either the turn or the river)?

[n.s.]

[ QUOTE ]
You said he can play too many hands, would K7s be in that range for 2 bets cold in the BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes - his range is really wide here. He's one of those "good" players that make some godawful PF calls, especially out of the blinds.

[jkamowitz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You said he can play too many hands, would K7s be in that range for 2 bets cold in the BB?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes - his range is really wide here. He's one of those "good" players that make some godawful PF calls, especially out of the blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I liked your play. After reading this, you should be valuebetting the river.

[Grease]

I think that with the player described, your turn check is ok, but since he checked to you again on the river, you must bet it, as there is probably a host of hands that he will look you up with.

Do you call a raise on the river? How well do you know this player? Based on the way you described him, it seems like you might be stuck paying him off, but I'm not so sure.

[n.s.]

Thanks for all the input. One thing I forgot to add - I think that BB would cap with most pocket pairs that he'd cold-call with (except for the smallest ones), so I don't think it's likely that he has a PP.

My motivation for checking wasn't that I thought I was behind, but that I didn't think he would pay me off with a lesser hand, and I didn't feel comfortable folding to a check-raise. I hoped to induce a bluff on the river, and when he checked again, I figured he either had total garbage and would fold, or I would end up stuck paying 2 bets to see his Q5s.