Do you attack unknown players (that buy in short)?

[andyEB]

So I'm thinking I may have found a leak in my game. Last night I won a pretty huge pot at one of my tables, and not long after, mixed it up with a couple of unknowns at a different table. I'm think I'm just getting too aggressive here (ie feeling invincible after winning a huge pot) or is my play OK?

Both hands are Villain's first hand at the table (2 different Villains). In both cases villain buys in short ($40 at $100 table) and posts without waiting for the blind.

In my review, it looks like I misplayed hand 2, but it was HU so [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]. Hand 1 I don't think I normally get this aggressive without better info on villain first. Did I get too carried away attacking unknown players?

Hand 1

Golden Palace
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: $106.50
UTG+1: $15.51
MP1: $206.50
MP2: $39.50
MP3: $40
CO: $97.75
Button: $90.30
SB: $86
BB: $65.75

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, 3 folds, MP3 calls, 4 folds.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($9.5, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $6</font>, MP3 calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($21.5, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets $10</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $20</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises to $40</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $101.5

Hand 2

Golden Palace
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $182
UTG+1: $48
MP1: $46.25
MP2: $102.75
CO: $88.30
Button: $55
Hero: $114
BB: $49

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
6 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $10</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($20, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets $8</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $28</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $47</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $114

[4_2_it]

Without reads, you definitely took marginal hands much too far. No need to raise them because they aren't folding, so let them continue to bet with worse hands. Raising just allows them to correctly fold hands like 99.

I am in the shorties usually suck camp, but these guys aren't that short. I like your play a lot better against guys who have 25 bb or less.

[andyEB]

Very good points, thanks.

[Kakashi2314]

in bot hhands stack and betsizes doesnt make sense [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[andyEB]

Realized after posting that villain bought in for $50 in the 2nd hand and posted the BB. Sizes should add up other than that (final pot sizes might be off -- converter got screwed up).

[***]

Are the golden palace games always so juicy? Do they have 6max?

Hand 1: Your min check/raise gives villain a chance to play for his whole stack if you are beaten, and get away or draw out if you are ahead. I like a check/raise all in more, and a check/call even more than that. The check/call leads to getting all in anyway, but leaves you some wiggle room and I think it allows you to extract a little more when ahead.

Hand 2: If you are ahead of villain, how many outs does he usually have? If you are behind villain how many outs do you usually have? Once you have answered these questions, what do you think the benefits of check/raising are? Concretely, which hands that you beat will he call incorrectly with, and which that are beating you will he fold incorrectly?

[kiwi29]

hand 1 -

In my experience with shortstacks if you get a flop call i'd put the percentage at 95% that he's getting his stack in on the turn or river. turn check/fold imo. Besides, is he gonna believe that you have a flush, hell he could have Ah and wouldnt even care anyway.

hand 2-
I don't know how liberally this shorty 3bets you but it's clear you dont respect it (most likely because he buys in short). Don't fall into this trap, if you are getting 3bet preflop especially at nl100 it most likely is premiums
so - fold preflop
as played villian made you put your stack in by acting weak on the flop aswell, don't fall for any of this, c/f flop. You are beating AK and that is a very small part of his range.

[andyEB]

These are both at Doyle's Room (dunno why converter said Golden Palace). The games there seem decent so far.

All considerations are good here, but the point was more that both of these players sat down and played their first hands at the table this way (no previous hands dealt and folded). I tend to assume these are bad players and was seeing what others thought. Normally in these spots I would play nothing like this, but I was assuming these guys are bad.

I tend to agree with what 4_2_it said -- just let them bet if they're bad and I have a marginal hand, no need to raise them. I see some bad players sit down and get overly aggressive right away and start raising &amp; calling with air or a lower pair, but I don't think I need to raise here.

If I did it all over again I think I would fold hand 2 pf.