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#1
01-08-2007, 10:46 PM
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Doesn\'t feel right....
Young white guy raises early, I 3bet A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], SB folds, BB calls, guy calls.
3way flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bb checks, guy checks, I check (?) Feels weak as hell, but I can't imagine I'm ahead or folding anything I want to fold with a bet. Thoughts? ---- Couple turn scenarios that I thought about: Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB checks, guy bets Turn: A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB checks, guy bets Turn: K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB checks, guy bets --- What if BB folds preflop, and guy checks same flop? What if I check behind, and then the turn scenarios? Any difference? I suck [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] 
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#2
01-08-2007, 10:48 PM
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Re: Doesn\'t feel right....
[ QUOTE ]
Young white guy raises early, I 3bet A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], SB folds, BB calls, guy calls. 3way flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] bb checks, guy checks, I check (?) Feels weak as hell, but I can't imagine I'm ahead or folding anything I want to fold with a bet. Thoughts? [/ QUOTE ] TT probably folds, as does 99. You're ahead of ATs and that will call, and you're ahead of A9s and that might not call. Bet the flop with two (dirty) overs and the gutshot to the straight. Check behind on the turn when he checks to you. Fold the river UI.
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#3
01-08-2007, 11:04 PM
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Re: Doesn\'t feel right....
The check post-flop is to induce a bet later, correct? You're in really good shape in this hand. I'd bet on the flop if I'm up against a LAGtard. I'm probably betting almost any turn, considering my draw and overs.
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#5
01-08-2007, 11:41 PM
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Re: Doesn\'t feel right....
aaron,
your thoughts about being c/r'd here? i think it kind of sucks since we have to call it, but i agree with your ideas about TT/99 and a free river card. help?
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#7
01-09-2007, 03:40 AM
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Re: Doesn\'t feel right....
[ QUOTE ]
aaron, your thoughts about being c/r'd here? i think it kind of sucks since we have to call it, but i agree with your ideas about TT/99 and a free river card. help? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, you don't really want to get check-raised, but the benefits probably outweigh the loss of paying 2 SB sometimes to get to the turn. There are 9 SB in the pot preflop. If you get check-raised, then the effective pot size is 11 SB (not including your first bet). This means you're looking at sometimes getting 11:2 = 5.5:1 to draw. A 7-outer requires right about those odds to be a profitable draw, so you're not losing much money when this happens.
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#8
01-09-2007, 04:01 AM
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Re: Doesn\'t feel right....
Thunk: that's way too hopeful and spewy aggressive with AK high. This is not a good flop for our hand.
Aaron, I agree with your first post but totally disagree with your second unless I'm not understanding you right. Just because we get the right price to draw doesn't mean we want to put in two bets here, "not losing much money when this happens" makes it sound like we have fair share equity or close to it and if we get checkraised that's not the case. OP: Bet the flop so you get checked to on the turn and take your free card then if you don't improve. In the scenarios listed after you check the flop, fold, call, and call. If you bet the flop and BB calls and guy checkraises, my default play is to 3 bet and take a free card. -DeathDonkey
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#10
01-09-2007, 02:18 PM
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Re: Doesn\'t feel right....
[ QUOTE ]
Aaron, I agree with your first post but totally disagree with your second unless I'm not understanding you right. Just because we get the right price to draw doesn't mean we want to put in two bets here, "not losing much money when this happens" makes it sound like we have fair share equity or close to it and if we get checkraised that's not the case. [/ QUOTE ] It's not about equity but about drawing odds. If villain were somehow able to bet 2 SB into Hero on the flop, Hero would be getting close to the right odds to draw to a 7-outer, which is close to what he has here (granted, some reverse implied odds as he may hit the wrong kicker and sometimes needs more than a pair to win). So the net result on this street, even if Hero is ALWAYS check-raised and ALWAYS has the worst hand, is only slightly -EV. Combined with all the good things a flop bet can do when Hero isn't check-raised and happens to have the best hand, this is a solid flop bet. Does that make more sense?
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