Faith - how do you get it if you don't have it?

[revots33]

Was thinking about faith once again today and I decided to look up the definition in Webster's dictionary. It said:

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(1) : firm belief in something for which there is no proof

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This "no proof" part is obviously the stumbling block for non-believers.

So given this definition of faith - and assuming the Christian god really does exist - how is one supposed to get faith if they're not one of the fortunate ones born with it?

It seems unlikely that a non-believer could ever be convinced to believe through debate. (And the lack of proof as a requirement also makes it pretty much impossible for an athiest to change a believer's mind.) It seems like with faith you've either got it or you don't.

If faith is a gift from god why does it come so much more easily to some than others? It doesn't seem fair. If heaven and hell do exist, than faith is the most important thing a person could ever possess by FAR. Eternity is riding on it. And yet it seems that some are given it so easily while others are not.

Is this a choice of god's, or is it a failing on the part of some humans? And if it is a human failing, what are they doing wrong and what should they be doing different?

[Skidoo]

I would suggest asking God these questions in sincere prayer and seeing what answers come your way.

[hmkpoker]

Become a hardcore drug addict. If Christians have taught me one thing, it's that atheists usually don't convert until they hit rock bottom with drugs, so start doing crack and heroin and with any luck you'll have an emergency room epiphany.

I unfortunately have not hit this point yet as I'm only an occasional toker, but luckily the same people predict that in about six months at this rate I'll be giving hand jobs for junk money.

[txag007]

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/faith

Faith: something that is believed with especially strong conviction.

You cannot think your way to God. You have to commit to Him. Pray.

[MidGe]

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I would suggest asking God these questions in sincere prayer and seeing what answers come your way.

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How could a prayer be sincere if you don't believe??? That's the issue, you will only believe in god if you make an act of belief for no reason whatsoever. And then, of course, you are hooked on whatever god you chose to believe in. Stupid, imo.

[Prodigy54321]

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I would suggest asking God these questions in sincere prayer and seeing what answers come your way.

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so let's say I do this..and get no response..I assume that your explanation will be one of two things..1) I am getting a response, but just don't see it..or 2) I was not sincere in my prayer...if another is more likely, I'd like to hear it..I'll be away until next weekend, so I won't be responding for a while, if at all.

if #1..the problem is that this response that I do not see, I do not see for a reason..that is, I see no reason to believe it to be a response unless I assume that this God exists..which leads me to #2

if #2..do I have to first believe that this God exists to get a response?..unless you claim the same opinion as txag, that is, that a person cannot think his way to god, he must commit to him, this may not be necessary to answer..

[Prodigy54321]

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You cannot think your way to God. You have to commit to Him. Pray.

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this could be true of many things..should I just start randomly making attempts to know things that cannot be known by thinking?..for instance, would you also advocate praying to other gods and committing yourself to them as well, even though I don't believe they exist? just for a test run basically..

because that's what we are doing here...

do we have to first believe that this god exists to "sincerely" commit to him? or can we still for the moment maintain that we do not believe that he exists..yet still be brought to this god?

otherwise..

we are trying to answer the question of whether or not something exists..we cannot "think" our way to believing that it exists..we must assume that it exists and commit ourselves to it..only then will be believe that it exists...

I'm confused as to why you don't seem to see the problem with this..

of course you can come to any conclusion by assuming that the conclusion is true..

if you want to argue that you a person can be brought to this god by assuming that he exists, commiting to him, then reasonably evaluating the effects of such a commitment, then fine..but that person MUST use his "thinking" to come to the conclusion about its effects...he cannot use a means which may only exist if the conclusion of his inquiry is that god exists..

for instance..suppose that this man wins the WSOP after committing to this god..although others who are already believers in this god may reasonably attribute it to this god..the person who won CANNOT do that...this conclusion can only come about if the person already presupposes the conclusion of his original inquiry

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You cannot think your way to God. You have to commit to Him. Pray.

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if this is true, then God isn't really a big fan of people coming to logical conclusions..which would seem weird to me, since the nature of the world that he creates seems to approve of using this system of logic.

of course what you said can be true..but it can be true of all things, not just God..we have no reason to prefer one of those things over the other..

-You cannot think your way to bigfoot, you must commit to bigfoot- is just as true

[ChrisV]

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So given this definition of faith - and assuming the Christian god really does exist - how is one supposed to get faith if they're not one of the fortunate ones born with it?

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I believe the standard method is to undergo some extremely traumatic experience, such as the death of a love one, and acquire faith as a coping mechanism.

[Darryl_P]

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Is this a choice of god's, or is it a failing on the part of some humans? And if it is a human failing, what are they doing wrong and what should they be doing different?

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It's a human failing, particularly by those in positions of power in western countries. Driven by selfishness, greed, and a desire for status, they propagate a culture in which material posessions are the most important goal for average people to strive for, even after survival and security have been all but guaranteed 1000 times over.

For the others, the failing is in allowing oneself to get swept up by such a culture, accepting its goals and channeling energies into avenues that tend to further it.

What should be done differently? Each person should strive for goals that they consider the most noble, rather than whore themselves out to the system. The economy would most certainly suffer if this happened, but the long-term outlook for humanity would be much better than it is today.

Just one man's opinion...since you asked.


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So given this definition of faith - and assuming the Christian god really does exist - how is one supposed to get faith if they're not one of the fortunate ones born with it?


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The best way to get faith is to step out of your world for several months at least. Take a trip around the world alone, spending most of your time in 2nd and 3rd world countries. If you don't become a believer after that, you probably never will.

[Rearden]

"The best way to get faith is to step out of your world for several months at least. Take a trip around the world alone, spending most of your time in 2nd and 3rd world countries. If you don't become a believer after that, you probably never will"

A believer in what? poverty? or "It's god's plan some people are poor"....

While I agree that any such trip would be good for personal development it doesnt answer the question.

To have faith you have to suspend reason... plain and simple and in keeping with the meanings of both faith and reason.