.05/.10 NLHE (6 max) Advise needed

TheSauce · #1 01-06-2007, 06:58 AM

This is my first post here. I always seem to get into situations like these. I am a poker novice i will admit, but feel i definitely have the ability to beat these micro limits and become a solid albeit casual player given time and learning. Any comments/ criticism on this hand welcome. How do i get away from it? Read on villain is fairly loose, playing alot of pots. Thanks in advance.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($10.55)
SB ($10.15)
BB ($6.35)
UTG ($2.45)
MP ($3.10)
Hero ($4.35)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.3, 1 fold, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20.

Flop: ($0.90) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $0.4, BB folds, Hero calls $0.40.

Turn: ($1.70) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.6, Hero raises to $1.5, SB raises to $6.4, Hero calls $2.15 (All-In).

River: ($11.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $11.75

Results in white below: 
SB has Ts Td (full house, tens full of queens).
Hero has 9s Ks (straight, king high).
Outcome: SB wins $11.75.

fretelöo · #2 01-06-2007, 07:47 AM

You're in the wrong forum. This is Micro LIMIT Hold'em, you want Micro NO LIMIT Hold'em.

Other than that, your hand looks fine to my eyes.

TheSauce · #3 01-06-2007, 07:51 AM

yah i noticed the NL forum after i posted.. sorry about that. I'll let this post die and repost in the correct forum.

Bona · #4 01-06-2007, 08:42 AM

You will probably get better advice in the Micro-no limit forum.You should post this there. Oh and don't include the results in your post. You will get better advice I think.

I suspect they may tell you that you should fold the flop. You are mostly behind there with only a gutshot straight draw and a backdoor flush draw.

danny8 · #5 01-06-2007, 12:00 PM

havnt read the results yet.. Firstly, buy-in full. Playing with <50BB's is more detrimental to your improvment as a player than anything else.

try to make your pf raise 4xBB/1BB per limper.. but 0.3 isnt so bad.

on the flop, fold.. you have a gutshot on a paired board, thats it.

turn is a tough spot. A straight on a paired, 3-flush board is not the best situation to be in. Since your short your line is ok i htink. If you were 100bb deep, id probably raise/fold. + you want to charge the [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x hand. hes still calling with a Q, but prolly reraises with a flush/FH.

So, buy in full, fold flop, if your still here on the turn, you need to raise more, at least $2 and fold to a reraise. With yourstack size i'd prolly call.. but i think your usually beat here.

bozzer · #6 01-07-2007, 05:25 AM

Ok there are lots of errors here.

Firstly, buy in for full (100BB) or play tight. If you don't have the bankroll for this game (20x$10) to play full stacked, either deposit, drop down stakes, or try Ed Miller's short stack strategy.

I'm not really sure whether this is a legitimate starting hand for 50BB, someone else will have to comment on that.

If you are going to play, make it 4BB + 1BB per limper to get more fold equity.

We have flopped a gutshot on a paired and suited board, with someone leading into us for less than half pot. We don't have a great hand, and pot odds plus implied odds are not really good enough to just call here:

1. Pot odds not good enough to see one street, only just good enough to see both streets.

2. We are half stacked, implied odds not so good.

3. If they have a flush draw, one of our outs is compromised, so we only have three outs for the gutshot.

4. If a T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hits, we're facing massive reverse implied odds.

5. The board is paired, we could be drawing dead already, or we could get overtaken even if we hit our straight.

So calling here will get you into trouble.

Here's why a raise might be a good idea:

1. They might only have a J and fold.

2. They might be bluffing since we are unlikely to have hit and fold.

3. They might only have a draw and fold.

4. They are less likely to put us on a draw.

5. We *might* buy ourselves a free card.

I don't know what your history with this player was like, but if I felt like there was a good chance the player was gambling that I don't have a Q and trying to push me around, I would raise. The gutshot is a secondary issue. If it comes in great, but we will proceed with caution. Same if we hit a K.

If I raise, I raise to 1.2 at least. If not I fold. I don't just passively draw in this situation.

Well, the T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] hit. We got the straight and the villain continues with his small betting. We're not folding, so we have two options:

Call. We could consider this a way ahead / way behind (WA/WB) situation: if he has a full house or a flush we are way behind. If he has trips or 2 pair we are ahead. In a WA/WB situation it's a good idea to keep the pot small: if you bet you are likely only to be called by the hands that are WA.

Raise. However, this is not a clear WA/WB situation since 2p/trips have outs for the full house, and with the 3 flush on the board, a flush draw is quite common. Using ProPokerTools (http://www.propokertools.com/simulat...mp;h4=&h5=), we have a 73% chance of winning if we are facing any Q or J. Usually people say WA/WB is something like 80/20, so we can see this is not clear cut. We'd hate to get drawn out on here. Plus there is the small chance they are simply looking to steal the pot with their small bet.

So I think the arguments for a raise edge it for me. The question is how much to raise?

The answer is not to 1.5 unfortunately. This is little more than a minraise. If I have a Q I am insta-calling 0.9 into a 4.7 pot = 19%, and I would be correct to do so. Even a jack would have odds to call here assuming you don't have a queen.

So we have to raise more. Raising to 3 would offer about 30% odds to call, but that's a bit hardcore, since only hand that beats us will call. Raising to $2 offers 24% pot odds, so something between 2 and 2.5 might be appropriate. I can't do these calcuations at the table, but knew just from looking that a raise of 1.5 was too small, and that 3 would probably be too much.

Then he pushes, and you have to call 2.15 into about $8. Do you think you have a 25% chance of winning? You have 0 outs so that's easy. If he pushes with a flush or full house you lose 100% of the time. If he pushes with a Q or a J, you lose about 25% of the time.

Pot odds calculations can give us the likihood that he needs to do this with a Q or J for us to call:

25 = x*75 + (1-x)(0)

25 is the hand equity we need, x is the chance he has a Q or J, 1-x is the chance he has flush or full house. Now we're assuming a 0% bluffing frequency.

1-x*0 = 0 obviously, so that leaves

25 = 75x

25/75 = x = 33%

He needs to push with a Q or J 33% of the time for this to be a good call.

Difficult, but at these stakes that's probably enough to call.

I went through algebra here, but this is really pretty simple numbercrunching. Assuming you're better at mental arithmatic than me (I am terrible), you should be able to get a rough idea of these numbers when you are thinking about calling.

Best not to post the results, just edit the hand history to finish at your point of indecision.

TheSauce · #7 01-07-2007, 06:04 AM

thanks alot for the replies.

First lesson... keep my stack full, something that hadn't struck me as important but after playing a bit more i can really see the importance of it. Especially when you sit at a table for awhile and see the endless parade of people coming in with like $3 and hoping for a quick dbl up. I can see how this could be easily taken advantage of by other players at the table.

Also, probably should not of played K9s to begin with but calling the small bet on the flop was terrible i see now. I agree raise or fold here (more likely fold) due to all the draws on the board. I got caught up thinking "i can draw to my str cheap" without thinking of the myriad of hands that still had outs against me even if i hit.

was gonna post another hand but the FTR converter seems to be screwing up or im doing something wrong.

keikiwai · #8 01-07-2007, 06:13 AM

what hands call your turn raise that you beat?

your straight came in yes... but so did a FD, and the board is paired... this'll make even trips think about what's going on

just try to get to showdown cheap, and be prepared to fold

TheSauce · #9 01-07-2007, 06:18 AM

Here is another hand. I feel i could have played this differently as well. Villain was failry tag, played few pots, usually raising with strong hands. Any comments welcome, flop and turn play especially. Could i have gotten more out of this hand?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($9.80)
MP ($9.60)
CO ($13.25)
Button ($28.35)
Hero ($16.35)
BB ($6)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.10, 1 fold, Button raises to $0.5, Hero calls $0.45, 1 fold, MP folds.

Flop: ($1.20) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $0.6, Hero calls $0.60.

Turn: ($2.40) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($2.40) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $0.8, Button folds.

Final Pot: $3.20

Esmerelda · #10 01-07-2007, 07:27 AM

Yeah that flop call was pretty weak IMO. You have a longshot straightdraw on a flop with a FD and broadway pair and another connected broadway. This flop hits alot of villains hard and your draw is nowhere near to the nuts.

Turn, I dunno which is more +ev calling or raising. You aren't folding out anything (unless this is a JT) and given your stack size you are almost certainly getting it in now or on the river so I don't suppose it matters.

If you had a bigger stack I would be inclined to call because there are just so many hands in his range that crush you. He played this like a Q not a FD but even against just those hands you are not in great shape.

If you raise just push, it is about the appropriate raise size anyway.