tight early strategy pitfalls

[Shes92]

This is a general strategy problem that seems to come up time and again for me and I was just wondering what other people think. I recently took to playing $11 Single Table Tourneys on Party and was slightly successful but I constantly found myself with one recurring problem.

I read quite a bit about stategy for these tourneys and basically followed the idea of playing really tight early in the tourney with the exception of calling in LP after a couple of limpers with pocket pairs, Axs at times or suited connectors (to give me a chance of doubling up with a monster). This happened rarely anyway as generally there was a raise before the action got to me or there were no limpers. In most tournaments I found that by the time I get to the middle stages I would generally have a few less chips then I started with. Starting stack is t2000 and maybe I would have t1700. The big blinds now would be t100 and so Im finding any raise to me to be significant in terms of my stack size or if I raise first in and I get reraised I am pot committing myself if I call or Im going allin or folding.

If I havent won a pot or two during this stage then the blinds are t200 and I have an M of 5 or less. Of course this is not a problem when I get a couple of very strong hands but very often this is not the case. I was wondering if this is a problem for a lot of players playing with this strategy or if there was some advice as to how to avoid these situations. I guess it is unavoidable if I have a run of really bad cards or really bad flops. Am interested in discussion on this topic in general.

[Bigwig]

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This is a general strategy problem that seems to come up time and again for me and I was just wondering what other people think. I recently took to playing $11 Single Table Tourneys on Party and was slightly successful but I constantly found myself with one recurring problem.

I read quite a bit about stategy for these tourneys and basically followed the idea of playing really tight early in the tourney with the exception of calling in LP after a couple of limpers with pocket pairs, Axs at times or suited connectors (to give me a chance of doubling up with a monster). This happened rarely anyway as generally there was a raise before the action got to me or there were no limpers. In most tournaments I found that by the time I get to the middle stages I would generally have a few less chips then I started with. Starting stack is t2000 and maybe I would have t1700. The big blinds now would be t100 and so Im finding any raise to me to be significant in terms of my stack size or if I raise first in and I get reraised I am pot committing myself if I call or Im going allin or folding.

If I havent won a pot or two during this stage then the blinds are t200 and I have an M of 5 or less. Of course this is not a problem when I get a couple of very strong hands but very often this is not the case. I was wondering if this is a problem for a lot of players playing with this strategy or if there was some advice as to how to avoid these situations. I guess it is unavoidable if I have a run of really bad cards or really bad flops. Am interested in discussion on this topic in general.

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Every winning TAG SNG player goes through this. It's a natural part of playing good strategy.

One thing to remember is that when you've reached this point, you're probably only facing 7 players instead of 10.

[Shes92]

Thanks for the response Bigwig ... oh and the vote of confidence.

[wagz]

Banshee, what is your ITM? And your ROI?

[Hollandicus]

This happens a lot! The good news is that you only need to pick up 1 or 2 pots during this middle stage to have a workable stack again, the even better news is that getting good cards need not matter as long as you are picking on the right opponents in good position with strong / aggressive play.

Sure, sometimes there are extremes, where there are raises ahead or big stacks to your left. In this case you need to be patient, but in my experience there are always opportinuties at some point, even if it is just to shove a 79 soooted into the blinds!

Also remember that even though 'table image' is not to be taken too seriously at the lowest levels people generally will notice the extremes - if you have not played a single pot then your first raise at least should pick up a pot without too much resistance.

Good luck!

[aujoz]

I don't think that limping with Axs or suited connectors is playing "tight".

My vpip from the tourneys I have on this PC (155) in level 1 is 8.32, and 9.52 in level 2. Getting that down from 12-15% has co-incided with huge improvements for my profitability.

[mightyrick]

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...followed the idea of playing really tight early in the tourney with the exception of calling in LP after a couple of limpers with pocket pairs, Axs at times or suited connectors (to give me a chance of doubling up with a monster).

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Um, playing ace-junk in any position early on is not tight. Depending on how you bet it, its either loose-aggressive or a donk/drunk play -- at least in tourney. Pocket pairs are also dependent on the pocket pair. Do you try to limp with 22, 33, 44? Do you raise with them? Suited connectors are also questionable depending on what they are.

Do you play cash/ring? It sounds like you are trying to apply cash game strategy to a tournament.

When I started playing poker, I started out playing ring exclusively and then went to tourneys. It took me probably two years before I could make the adjustment. I was losing money hand over fist in tourneys. Opening hands are so different.

I think you need to tighten up more (especially at the beginning of the tourney). Trying to build the "monster" (read -- low probability) hand in a tourney will bleed you dry. I learned this the hard way.

And all of this was before SNGWiz and such came along.

[sng-sam]

~grunch~

banshee:

some of what you have written is a neccessary evil. you're alternatives are even less attractive than your strategy (which is proven to succeed). As for some of the particulars of you post let me respond.

1. please start folding Ax and suited connectors this logic only applies to multitable tournaments. remember you have a very shallow chip stack you really have to be stingy when deciding when to put chips in early.

2. Also Harrington's M is great for multi's but not so great for SNG's. I know he uses SNG's as samples in his book but I know of no regular winning player that uses M as his guide. Seriously.

3. You haven't spoken of ICM yet. Are you aware of it? If so are you practicing? I would tell you that if you aren't working with SNGPT and Bubble Trainer daily, you will not get better.

So..yes tight early loose late is the right strategy but how tight early how loose late, these are math questions and you absolutly must learn the mathematics to be a winning player. Good luck.

Straight Flushes,

SAM

[Jbrochu]

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Also Harrington's M is great for multi's but not so great for SNG's. I know he uses SNG's as samples in his book but I know of no regular winning player that uses M as his guide. Seriously.

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If you're comfortable using M it's fine to use in STT's you just need to calibrate it differently than you would for MTT's. (i.e. - an M of 5 in an STT is usually far less of a desparate situation than an M of 5 in an MTT.)

[wiggs73]

Banshee,

Wow, you sound like me 3 years ago. Don't worry, the 'tight early' strategy works, especially at low stakes.

If anything, stop playing AXs and suited connectors early. Try using poker tracker to see if you are making money (or chips I guess) with these in the first 2 or 3 levels. You might be surprised.