TPGK, 5 opponents, flush draw on flop

[calidris]

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (13SB, 6 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, BB folds, UTG calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero ?

This flop i suddenly got confused and didn't really know what to do. Normally I'd raise here since I raised PF but against 5 opponents? Raising won't limit the field since they all called one bet already and I'm last to act. If i'd been number two I'd raise in a heart beat.

Raising could give me an opportunity to win it with a turn bet or get a free card, but if a 3-flush comes up I'm getting really nervous against 5 opponents. Suggestions?

[brandysbich]

First of all I dont raise this preflop unless i'm first in on the button or LP, unless its suited, but prob still lean against it with 3 in the pot already.

You make a good point about calling and then raising the turn on a safe card, which is prob what I'd do here cos nobody is getting out the pot here for another half bet.

[DrModern]

[ QUOTE ]
First of all I dont raise this preflop unless i'm first in on the button or LP, unless its suited, but prob still lean against it with 3 in the pot already.

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Ugh, can we not debate whether or not to raise KQo?

[ QUOTE ]
You make a good point about calling and then raising the turn on a safe card, which is prob what I'd do here cos nobody is getting out the pot here for another half bet.

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OTOH, you have the chance to get a lot of bets now from a wide field--some of whom may fold on the turn--when you likely have the best hand. I'd probably pop it.

[tyler_cracker]

You can't protect your hand by raising now, but you probably won't be able to protect your hand by raising the turn either. Thus, we look to raising for value.

While there is a flush draw out (and a lot of opponents who might hold it), this board is pretty raggedy. Our equity isn't really going to change a whole lot on the turn. Therefore, i say raise now while we have everyone trapped and while we probably have the best hand.

[tyler_cracker]

[ QUOTE ]
First of all I dont raise this preflop unless i'm first in on the button or LP, unless its suited, but prob still lean against it with 3 in the pot already.

You make a good point about calling and then raising the turn on a safe card, which is prob what I'd do here cos nobody is getting out the pot here for another half bet.

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Both of these statements show a poor understanding of what it means to raise for value.

[brandysbich]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
First of all I dont raise this preflop unless i'm first in on the button or LP, unless its suited, but prob still lean against it with 3 in the pot already.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ugh, can we not debate whether or not to raise KQo?

[ QUOTE ]
You make a good point about calling and then raising the turn on a safe card, which is prob what I'd do here cos nobody is getting out the pot here for another half bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

OTOH, you have the chance to get a lot of bets now from a wide field--some of whom may fold on the turn--when you likely have the best hand. I'd probably pop it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well please excuse me then, I thought he was asking my opinion on the hand. I'm still new to posting here and didnt know that KQo had been discussed to death

[DrModern]

Come on, don't get offended. I'm just saying that it's well known that it's close between raising and limping with KQo. You may not raise it but it's definitely an acceptable play.

The point Tyler was trying to make (admittedly a little more clearly than I) is that you aren't just trying to "lean" on the hand preflop because there are enough people in, you're raising it for value.

[BigBadBabar]

i'd raise the flop.

[Shillx]

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i'd raise the flop.

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[00Snitch]

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Ugh, can we not debate whether or not to raise KQo?

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im pretty sure we can turn every thread into a "should i raise KQo pf" debate. just look at what me and aussie did in that AJo on monotone flop thread. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

my (new/revised) opinion is raise it everytime. but yes, there is no need to debate this again and im sure it is close etc, etc.

as for the hand, raise that flop. if the board was more scary (like connected and flushdraw) you could make an argument for waiting til the turn. but that line is best saved for when there are heaps of cards that will cripple your hand on the turn. as it stands, you is probably a maximum of 13 cards that will scare you (clubs and aces). even a club falling shouldnt put you off too much.

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Raising could give me an opportunity to win it with a turn bet or get a free card, but if a 3-flush comes up I'm getting really nervous against 5 opponents


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just some comments on this. i doubt raising will give you a chance to win it on the turn. the sb bet into a big field after a pf raise, he wont fold to a turn bet. i would say he has at least TP or a fd. plus there are heaps of callers. probably the only things that would fold to a turn bet are single clubs.

also, im not sure what turn cards you would check behind on in this hand. clubs you would bet. maybe aces? anyone help me out on that one?