Give me a line for value

LimitGod · #1 01-01-2007, 09:51 PM

Opponent is 60/30 but only over 30 hands. This was the first time I have seen him cap PF. Immediately my mind goes to QQ+,AKs. What is the best line here to get value after the flop. I felt raising the turn would shut AK down. The river seemed like a good time to c/r because only one hand, AK would probably check behind.

Full Tilt Poker
$/$ No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
4 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter

Stack Sizes
BTN: $18.75
Hero (SB): $38.15
BB: $10
UTG: $17.70

Preflop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($0, 4 players)
UTG folds, BTN raises to $1, Hero raises to $1.50, BB raises to $2, BTN folds, Hero calls $0.50

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($5, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] [5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] ($6, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1, Hero calls $1

River: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] [Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] ($8, 2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1, Hero raises to $2, BB calls $1

jstill · #2 01-01-2007, 10:12 PM

i cr the flop and hope to have him spew with an overpair hopefully getting to bet 3 bet the turn, if i didnt for some reason and i thought he'd definitely bet AK or AQ again on the turn id check raise the turn but i still like cr'ing the flop much much better here. while there are no draws to worry about protecting against or giving up a freecard to, waiting til the river or even the turn for that matter just lets him slowdown with a lot of strong but worse hands that mite have given u much more action earlier. i think taking the line u took here with the virtual nuts is a rather large leak and cost u alot of bets those times he has AA-JJ (which is most of the time he caps in the bb).

NL__Fool · #3 01-01-2007, 10:23 PM

You lost some bets by playing your hand this way.

Check raise the flop hoping to get 3 bet then you can either A Cap the flop or B)checkraise the turn or bet 3 bet the turn

DCWildcat · #4 01-01-2007, 11:09 PM

It's almost never correct to c/c both the flop and turn like this. I'm usually just c/r->b->b or c/c->c/r->b

LimitGod · #5 01-01-2007, 11:21 PM

I think I should have done this:
b/c
c/r/
b/3bet

TomBrooks · #6 01-01-2007, 11:41 PM

Bet the flop. Hope he has JJ-AA and raises. You could jam and hope he caps, or you could just call and set a trap for the big street to come.

Donk the turn and this time when he raises, 3Bet and hope he caps. The five pairing on the turn might scare him but if he thinks about it, it shouldn't because he shouldn't put you on a five. But many micro players might not realize that. If you're worried about that, c/r the turn.

Whatever you do, you got to get some more raises in there somewhere between the flop and turn.

Depending on what you do and how he reacts to that point would determine your move on the river.

NinaWilliams · #7 01-01-2007, 11:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i cr the flop and hope to have him spew with an overpair hopefully getting to bet 3 bet the turn, if i didnt for some reason and i thought he'd definitely bet AK or AQ again on the turn id check raise the turn but i still like cr'ing the flop much much better here. while there are no draws to worry about protecting against or giving up a freecard to, waiting til the river or even the turn for that matter just lets him slowdown with a lot of strong but worse hands that mite have given u much more action earlier. i think taking the line u took here with the virtual nuts is a rather large leak and cost u alot of bets those times he has AA-JJ (which is most of the time he caps in the bb).

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree

LimitGod · #8 01-02-2007, 12:10 AM

Do we c/r to marry him to the pot? Is that why we do it on the turn?

jstill · #9 01-02-2007, 12:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Do we c/r to marry him to the pot? Is that why we do it on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

hes already married to the pot with any overpair and the hands hes not (AK AQ) mite ck behind on the turn or river which we obviously dont want since theyd probably call the flop cr and maybe a turn bet (and who knows maybe even the river)

we check raise becuz we have a very strong holding and would like to put as many bets in a possible (for value) and for all we know the villain could be thinking the same thing but he cant reraise unless u give him the opporunity and its better done earlier in the hand when ur cr wont mean as much strength and nothing has come to scare him off from raising ur raise/ slow him down.

bobhalford · #10 01-02-2007, 12:43 AM

I think this hand was poorly played. Whatever you do, at least check-raise somewhere. I would do it on the flop because I will get 3bet a lot, at which point I call his raise and then check-raise the turn! It's good to be such a bad boy.

In this hand I think the only street played correctly was pre-flop. On the river, after having misplayed both flop and turn, you should probably bet out, simply because it's the only way you can guarantee that 1BB goes in on every street. Checking just allows villain to showdown cheap (though AQ is the 2nd most likely unpaired hand other than AK that villain could have). But since villain bet the turn he's got QQ+ a lot. It's really such a shame you didn't check-raise the turn, seeing as you knew now that AA/KK were such likely suspects. And then you get 3bet sometimes, which is like such a beautiful thing.

Since we figure him for a big pair, it's makes it uncomfortable when QQ rivers you and you check raise. I'd rather put all the bets in on the turn where we have the nuts. It's just a no brainer. If I had AA and was playing this hand against you, I would have been like WTF??