50NL TPTK

five · #1 12-31-2006, 03:47 AM

I am a recent convert to NL, wondering if I butchered this hand. Villain here has only been around for about 20 hands. He bought in short for 20, played about 70% of his hands. He went AI once and didn't get called. He put another guy AI with a turned 2p (QKo) after raising preflop.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($15.15)
BB ($24.40)
UTG ($22.90)
Hero ($39.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, 1 fold, BB calls $2, UTG folds.

Flop: ($5.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $3.5, BB calls $3.50.

Turn: ($12.75) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

So I read some of the posts about differences between limit an NL, and one was summarized by "small hand small pot". I was thinking pot control here, as I fold out worse aces, but may pick up a bet from them on the river. Also, if he does have me beat, then I pay the least for a SD. So I checked.

River: ($12.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $18.4 (All-In), Hero wishes this was LHE...

_TKO_ · #2 12-31-2006, 03:53 AM

Oy, I'm equally as lost in situations like this. His stack is so short that it's hard to play real poker here. I think I call this river...

BigMac1082 · #3 12-31-2006, 04:01 AM

Tough spot. I think you should fold this river because I expect to see 10 10, 8 8, or some suited connector like 78 or 89 a lot of the time.

Given all that, I call because people do some crazy [censored] at these levels.

Sean Fraley · #4 12-31-2006, 04:33 AM

Not too long ago, I was an immigrant from limit. One of the first things that I learned was that things change dramatically when you can be playing for your entire stack. Unlike limit, you can't call here just because this is a WA/WB situation. To have any chance at staying alive in No Limit, you need to learn that this is a situation where you need to fold it and wait for a time when you have better hand with which to make a stand. Here are two things about this hand that illustrate this point.

1) Short stack strategy in NL is all about playing tight, and either a) getting it all in preflop with monster hole cards or b) getting it all in on a flop that hits you hard. When a short stack shoves, you need to think long and hard about what can beat you here. This leads us to our next point...

2) One of the game defining elements of No Limit Hold 'Em is the set. Holding a pocket pair a and flopping three of a kind is a very strong hand in no limit, and set farming (playing pocket pairs almost exlusively, waiting for a set to flop) is one of the most likely strategies for micro-stakes nits to understand and latch on to. It is also one of the cornerstone elements of short stack strategy.

This is a hand that screams set, or at least two pair. Be very reticent to call these bets with TPTK without having already seen strong evidence that Villain is likely to make this kind kind of play with less than TPTK.

ihtfp · #5 12-31-2006, 04:34 AM

Well-played...but I think you should fold this river.

I just can't see villain playing AQ or worse that aggressively.

pineapple888 · #6 12-31-2006, 04:48 AM

Well, there's no secret here, it's totally read-dependent.

From what you've said, I call pretty fast. Your reasoning behind the turn check was fine, and now he bet the river, which you reasonably expected from worse Aces plus pure bluffs sometimes. You've shown weakness, maybe a bad Ace or JJ-KK or something, so a very loose player (like Villain seems to be) can think he's value betting here and hoping you can't get away form those hands. If you are beat, you are beat.

But I would let it go real fast vs. a tight player of course, or a good LAG.

pineapple888 · #7 12-31-2006, 04:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]

1) Short stack strategy in NL is all about playing tight

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything you said is correct in theory, but the read was that Villain was in 70% of hands with his short stack. Which means he is likely to be an idiot. Which means you should seriously consider calling.

Sir Winalot · #8 12-31-2006, 06:39 AM

I'd bet close to full pot on the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking pot control here, as I fold out worse aces, but may pick up a bet from them on the river. Also, if he does have me beat, then I pay the least for a SD. So I checked.

[/ QUOTE ]
This thinking in itself is good and should be applied if you play against a somewhat competent opponent, but against this opponent you should get your money in asap. He'll probably pay you off with all worse Ax. My postflop plan would be to pot flop and shove turn.

River looks like an easy call with your read, sure he could have an 8 here, but this is too often a worse A for me to fold.

Sweir · #9 12-31-2006, 07:10 AM

I would call river given the read on Villian. I would also make a bit of a bigger bet on the flop. I think checking behind on the turn is ok but I would probably bet that too.

Sir Winalot · #10 12-31-2006, 07:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Not too long ago, I was an immigrant from limit. One of the first things that I learned was that things change dramatically when you can be playing for your entire stack. Unlike limit, you can't call here just because this is a WA/WB situation. To have any chance at staying alive in No Limit, you need to learn that this is a situation where you need to fold it and wait for a time when you have better hand with which to make a stand. Here are two things about this hand that illustrate this point.

1) Short stack strategy in NL is all about playing tight lmao [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] , and either a) getting it all in preflop with monster holecards or..anything else the shortstacker sees as a pretty hand b) getting it all in on a flop that hits you hard. they get all-in wheter they hit hard, partially or even a draw or sometimes without anything When a short stack shoves, you need to think long and hard about what can beat you here. TPGK or better is allways a call, draws can be called if we're getting the odds This leads us to our next point...

2) One of the game defining elements of No Limit Hold 'Em is the set. Holding a pocket pair a and flopping three of a kind is a very strong hand in no limit, OK, this part is good. and set farming (playing pocket pairs almost exlusively, waiting for a set to flop) is one of the most likely strategies for micro-stakes nits to understand and latch on to. Yes. It is also one of the cornerstone elements of short stack strategy. Definetly not. Calling preflop for set value with a short stack [read: no implied odds] is -----$EV, and NOT a part of shortstack strategy.

This is a hand that screams set, or at least two pair. IMO we'll see a worse Ax hand like 90% Be very reticent to call these bets with TPTK without having already seen strong evidence that Villain is likely to make this kind kind of play with less than TPTK. Bull [censored]! TPTK against shorstacks is teh nutzers. 

[/ QUOTE ]

All in all, shortstacking is bad. Don't do it.