interesting Elimination Blackjack hand

[willie24]

I thought this was an interesting hand

UB blackjack sng

Its an elimination hand, 3 players left (2 paid)

I am on the button (first to act) with 61,000
B+1 has 67,000
B+2 has 175,000

betting max is 25,000. minimum is 500.

I bet max and hide it with my "secret card". B+1 bets max and doesn't hide. B+2 bets 500.

I get T7
B+1 gets 76
dealer shows 3

what's my action?

now I'm not positive on this- I am new to the game- but i think that, since I hid, my action is invisible to him, except that he sees if a card comes or doesnt (he doesnt know if i double or surrender). can someone confirm that this is true?

now, assuming that to be true, what's his action...
if he sees me take a card and hit 18 or better?
if he sees me take no card

[mothmandan]

I have played a few of these tournaments on UltimateBet and have experienced a few similar situations. I apologize if this is a bit wordy.

First - I am pretty sure that if you hit, your card is only put face down if you double down, or double down for less. Otherwise the hand plays out normally. The exception is that they won't clear your bet if you bust until the hand is complete because they wait to reveal the secret bet.

As for actions on your hand - in a regular blackjack game you would stand and hope the dealer busts but then the other player would also stand and you would lose unless the dealer hits a 17. In elimination blackjack you double down for less. You used the secret bet on this hand so the double for less would also be secret. He would not know how much you doubled for or what your third card is. Then you sit and pray that you pull your 4. As for the amount to wager I would wager the minimum. If your opponent sees your secret double and doubles himself and loses then you may win the hand if he doubled for more and covered the stack difference.

As for actions of the B+1 player - if you stand, the B+1 player stands as well and as mentioned above you lose the hand unless you push the 17 and he loses.

If you double for less as I said above, the B+1 player should probably still stand on 13. The chances of you hitting a 4 or less are pretty slim, and then the chances of the dealer busting are also present.

It is situations like these that make this game interesting, because you need to make more money than your opponent to stay in the game, but go against all basic strategy rules. Good luck in future tournaments.

Dan's 2 cents

[willie24]

interesting recommendation.

I surrendered. what are your thoughts on that? (i believe that this shows up as a "stand" with the use of the secret card)

[willie24]

Note: the clarification of the rules is as follows- he can't see my betting, but he can see my cards as he normally could. therefore he can't see the difference between a surrender and stand, or the difference between a double for max and a double for min.


the way i see it, these are ways that i can possibly survive:

1. i can surrender, and hope he loses.
2. i can stand and hope the dealer ends up with 17
3. i can stand and hope that he surrenders and that i win.

4. i can double for the max and hope to win.
5. i can double for the min and hope he doubles and loses (as you suggested).

if he knew my action, and was logical, these would be his corresponding responses to each:

vs1. surrender and guarantee his survival
vs2,3. stand and hope the dealer ends up with anything but 17

vs4. double for max so that, in case i win, he has a chance to pass me. (he is guaranteed to survive either way if i lose)
vs5. stand and hope i either lose, or that the dealer busts.

1,2 and 3 appear the same to him. if he sees no card come, I might have done any of them. The same is true of 4 and 5. if he sees me double i may have done either 4 or 5.

it's a paper-rock-scissors situation...except its 2 options (in each case) rather than 3. so i guess it's more like the scene in The Princess Bride with the glasses of poison...i know he will stand so i should surrender...but he knows i should surrender and so he will surrender for that reason...but i know he knows that so i should stand...but he knows i know he knows that so...

it turned out I surrendered and he hit (!?) and made 21 and pushed with the dealer. go figure.

[mothmandan]

I was under the impression that a surrender would be shown somewhere - either in the text/chat box or on the screen once it is your turn to act - and that like a bust it would be resolved after the hand due to the secret bet.

If the other player decided to hit [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] then a surrender was probably the best move possible (your foresight is impecable). If he would have busted you would have won and it was about your only hope at that point. That other player pulled a real donk move and almost deserved to lose the hand.

[willie24]

[ QUOTE ]
I was under the impression that a surrender would be shown somewhere - either in the text/chat box or on the screen once it is your turn to act - and that like a bust it would be resolved after the hand due to the secret bet.


[/ QUOTE ]

i don't doubt that you are right about this. I really don't know. if you are then the dynamics change. basically, the surrender becomes a move i must hope that he thinks is a bluff (that is, that i didn't bet the max, but am pretending like i did in order to make him surrender)- so that he does not surrender. if he knows that i bet the max and surrendered. then he must surrender. if i did anything but bet the max and surrender, then surrendering is a terrible move on his behalf. either way, if he guesses wrong i have a chance

[D_Matthews]

I would surrender, which would look like a stand. Sure, you're locked out if he surrenders behind you, but he sees your 17 and is going to assume you stood. Also, he'll think that since he bet max, he's got you covered except for when the dealer makes exactly 17. It's a bluff move.

If it wasn't secret, then you'd be forced to double.