Atheists: Would You Kill Someone?

samsonite2100 · #1 12-30-2006, 04:43 PM

I'm talking about a real scumbag--let's say, I dunno, an active distributor of child pornography or a big-time heroin dealer. Someone who, if they didn't exist, quality of life would dramatically improve for a substantial number of people on planet Earth. And this would be at no risk to yourself, either in the killing, or in getting caught post-kill.

I'm putting this to the atheists, b/c I figure this is an easy "no" for religious types who believe in an absolute morality and judgment after death. As an atheist, I find myself, troublingly, answering yes to this question, or at least having a hard time finding an argument against it.

Hopey · #2 12-30-2006, 04:47 PM

Why do I need to kill him? Why can't the police deal with him?

Granted, as an atheist, I'm constantly looking for victims for my blood orgies...

hmkpoker · #3 12-30-2006, 04:56 PM

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I'm talking about a real scumbag--let's say, I dunno, an active distributor of child pornography or a big-time heroin dealer.

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Can it be a corrupt, oppressive legislator instead?

Duke · #4 12-30-2006, 05:04 PM

I'd kill the people who actually do bad things, not the middle men. If they also do bad things (like make kiddie porn, or kill people because they're a drug dealer), then maybe they'll be on the list. As worded, they're pretty far down the list (behind the people creating content or doing the killing).

RayBornert · #5 12-30-2006, 05:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about a real scumbag--let's say, I dunno, an active distributor of child pornography or a big-time heroin dealer. Someone who, if they didn't exist, quality of life would dramatically improve for a substantial number of people on planet Earth. And this would be at no risk to yourself, either in the killing, or in getting caught post-kill.

I'm putting this to the atheists, b/c I figure this is an easy "no" for religious types who believe in an absolute morality and judgment after death. As an atheist, I find myself, troublingly, answering yes to this question, or at least having a hard time finding an argument against it.

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"this is an easy "no" for religious types"

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did you mean to say easy "yes"?

the history of the abrahamic faiths are that they very actively practice conscientious natural selection - they are very much in favor of ending the lives of major waste producers.

ray

Prodigy54321 · #6 12-30-2006, 05:18 PM

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an active distributor of child pornography

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this is a very complex issue for me...

for instance, if the legal age were changed to 17 instead of 18, I would have no problem with it....still even lower would be fine with me..

it all comes down to whether or not these "children" are of the mature capacity to consent and did indeed consent..of course the first is really the question here..can we place an age on it...I would say that for the good of a state as a whole, the answer is yes..exactly what age it should be is another question..

basically all that I am trying to say here is that I may have no moral qualms with this man other than that he is not obeying a law that is part of a social contract that he is living in...this alone, however, is not enough to make me believe that killing him is the best thing..

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a big-time heroin dealer.

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if this were a weed dealer, I would have no moral qualms with him (again other than breaking the law)...

heroin is another issue though..I think there was a poll in politics a while back asking which drugs could be legal..and although most felt that weed should be legal, drugs like coke and heroin should not...and I think this is for good reason...they seems to be liable to cause a much greater amount of harm to other people than the user than other drugs such as weed. (not sure if it's more than alcohol though [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img])..so I would probably have some more moral qualms about the breaking of this law than other ones..

alright..I know that I didn't answer your question..sorry..

if it were guaranteed that, because of the acts of the offender, the act of killing this person would increase the quality of life (including the fact that we are severely diminishing the quality of life of the offender) to warrant it...then I think most people would agree that it would be better if this person didn't exist...

the problem I see is that we live in a society where we have a social contract in place that doesn't allow for vigilanty justice..and there is good reason for it...to protect the innocent and to sentence justly...

I wouldn't want some other guy going around killing anyone he felt was harmful to society, so I would not do it myself.

arahant · #7 12-30-2006, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about a real scumbag--let's say, I dunno, an active distributor of child pornography or a big-time heroin dealer. Someone who, if they didn't exist, quality of life would dramatically improve for a substantial number of people on planet Earth. And this would be at no risk to yourself, either in the killing, or in getting caught post-kill.

I'm putting this to the atheists, b/c I figure this is an easy "no" for religious types who believe in an absolute morality and judgment after death. As an atheist, I find myself, troublingly, answering yes to this question, or at least having a hard time finding an argument against it.

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Yeah, I'd kill someone. Not those people, but say, a serial rapist that i caught in the act...the police can handle most things, but I'm trying to follow the spirit of your question.

And btw, the answer for any christian is a pretty easy "yes", not "no".

Lestat · #8 12-30-2006, 05:56 PM

LOL- I'm starting to think I must be a very unique and weird non-believer. You still don't have the right to take another life. I would kill in self-defense of myself, family, or other loved one. There may be a few more isolated situations.

But for what you're talking about we have LAWS and JAILS. Under your world-view, why not kill anyone for a few bucks if you could get away with it? Or for cutting you off on the freeway for that matter?

samsonite2100 · #9 12-30-2006, 06:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm talking about a real scumbag--let's say, I dunno, an active distributor of child pornography or a big-time heroin dealer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can it be a corrupt, oppressive legislator instead?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

samsonite2100 · #10 12-30-2006, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Why do I need to kill him? Why can't the police deal with him?

Granted, as an atheist, I'm constantly looking for victims for my blood orgies...

[/ QUOTE ]

Because let's say part of this hypothetical is that giving the guy (or gal) to the cops is not an option. We're talking zero sum here--either you kill them or they continue making the world a cruddy place.

Also, please don't take this as some kind of semi-clever instigation against atheist relative morality, or whatever. I really am an atheist and I'm genuinely curious what other atheists have to say about this (and know of no other place where more atheists hang out, either).