Is this a good spot for an Isolation raise?

[qwertyui9]

I was messing around in a $1 rebuy to try out a few different things. This hand came up three rounds after the rebuy period had finished and there were 130 ppl left with 27 to be paid.

The guy who originally called the raise had made a few speculative calls against shortstacks so he didn't have to have a big hand. If I could get him and the blinds to fold I'd be risking 3200 to win 8800. Is this a good move?

MP1 $13,750
MP2 $19,040
LP1 $10,620
LP2 $11,190
Hero (Dealer) - $14,550
sb - $6,600
bb - $13,400
UTG - $3,200
UTG+1 $7,770

Hero has A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG called 1,600 and raised 1,600 and is All-in

folded to MP2 who called 3,200

folded to me, I move in for t14,550

[4CardStraight]

My gut says no.

Yes this guy might be raising a "little" light. including hands like A5o A8o etc, but will he really fold those hands when you go in, given all the dead money in the pot? probably not, since his mindset is probably that all he needs to do is catch an ace to win.

A3s is in my opinion a really good hand to raise in an unraised pot. It is total garbage multi-way, and not a hand I would try to isolate with.

The stack sizes are also a minor issue. The blinds here are 800/1600? antes? probably... so your looking at minimum 10k dead money in the pot, and your raise is just about that, so he is getting 2:1 odds to call (the mp caller), so I think he will have a hard time folding anything here.

Maybe if you have seen this guy fold after making a cold call. Had you seen him do that?

[BlueEcho]

My A3s goes in the muck here PF.

[J.A.K.]

Post deleted by JK_LIMPER

[qwertyui9]

Sorry, no antes on this site, should have mentioned this.

I hadnt seen this situation happen before but my gut was he was trying to take the shortstack on with a marginal hand cheaply, and could fold to a bet that was most of his stack.

I don't make this sort of play a lot and was experimenting in this game. What sort of conditions do you normally look for before making this play?

[4CardStraight]

What do I look for in an isolation raise?

Live poker.

Seriously. Online players will too often just do the math on the call and say hey im getting almost 2 to 1 on the call, i better hit the call button and fire up another match if I was that beat.

Live, players are much more willing to give you credit for a real hand and recognize that even getting 2 to 1 isnt a good spot if they are an 80/20 dog.

I also like to raise with position and good cards, and not so much just because I think someone was limping light or calling light. People too often limp Jacks to Aces hoping to trap, or make a light call with great cards thinking the pot will be big enough for someone in late position to make a move on me, and Surprise Ive got nuts....

Shrug. Maybe a part of my game I need to look at further

[qwertyui9]

Didnt notice him at the time, fortunately he was braindead [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I rarely play hands in this spot without real strength (AQs+, AK+, 10 10+ as a general rule), but a lot of ppl I have seen doing well in tournys recently make this play with some marginal hands.

My questions are to do with when people make this move with marginal hands to take on short stacks and try to create a lot of dead money. For instance in the hand described how much would I and the caller have to have to make this a good play (ignoring the sb)? What sort of situations is this sort of play most profitable in?

[seke2]

If MP2 was a little bit deeper, I think I might like this better, but it's not a bad move. You're ahead of UTG's range, and you're going to get MP2 to fold a lot. SB is a minor concern, but I think he's folding a lot here. If he was in the BB, I wouldn't isolate, but he's only put 800 into this pot and I'd expect him to fold most of his hands to your push.

Edit: and to your other question, if you and MP2 had about 5-10k more each, I'd really like this.

[J.A.K.]

I deleted my post because the entire point was based on SB getting 3.5-1 which was incorrect cause I am a math tard. He is getting 2.3-1 which is still pretty good but will still fold some.

[BriPlay]

Are you trying an isolation play to isolate MP2, or a squeeze play to get MP2 to fold?. Either way I dont think this is a good spot. I see two problems here.
1. you are overbettting a dry pot by pushing allin. The first guy cant fold (he's allin), and MP2 can now choose to call or not based on his hand (you have taken the risk)
2. Your hand is not so hot that you need to isolate to win. I might think about it with a mid pr like 88 or 77 if Im ok in a coinflip for all my chips vs MP2 (he may call with Ax greater than 8, KQs etc)
on balence i'd just fold this and watch
brian