PLO8 100 - River value bet with 2nd nut flush OOP?

YKMM · #1 12-28-2006, 12:08 PM

This hand is confusing me. CO is 61/12/2.0 in 51 hands. How's the flop line? Bet the river or check-call/check fold?

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $119.65
Hero: $88.75
MP1: $58.10
MP2: $43.60
CO: $93.10
Button: $63.50
SB: $36.85
BB: $97

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($11, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $8, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($27, 2 players)
Hero bets $18, CO calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($63, 2 players)
Hero ....

I have $59.25 left.

Phil153 · #2 12-28-2006, 12:34 PM

Check call the majority of the time, possibly a check raise against this particular opponent.

davebreal · #3 12-28-2006, 12:36 PM

block-bet, fold to raise.

Phil153 · #4 12-28-2006, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
block-bet, fold to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
lmfao

dameblackman · #5 12-28-2006, 02:04 PM

phil you are a joke u play 1/4 dave's stakes and im lifetime up 10x on you what I am on him with far less hands played against you, why don't you go back to party and keep bitching like a 12-year old girl when your 50/50 hand loses you a whopping $50?

:chimp:

prodonkey · #6 12-28-2006, 02:05 PM

I don't naked ace bluff often.. but vs a block bet I do a LOT.

niss · #7 12-28-2006, 02:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
phil you are a joke u play 1/4 dave's stakes and im lifetime up 10x on you what I am on him with far less hands played against you, why don't you go back to party and keep bitching like a 12-year old girl when your 50/50 hand loses you a whopping $50?

:chimp:

[/ QUOTE ]

Awesome insight.

I agree with my idol, the joke.

dameblackman · #8 12-28-2006, 02:31 PM

f insouciant glibness from third-parties, I want a chimp-styled tantrum/response from the one and only badbeat

davebreal · #9 12-28-2006, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
phil you are a joke u play 1/4 dave's stakes and im lifetime up 10x on you what I am on him with far less hands played against you, why don't you go back to party and keep bitching like a 12-year old girl when your 50/50 hand loses you a whopping $50?

:chimp:

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.

god bless my fanclub.

Gone Forever · #10 12-28-2006, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 2 folds, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($11, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $8, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($27, 2 players)
Hero bets $18, CO calls.

River: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($63, 2 players)
Hero ....

I have $59.25 left.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems like opening out of position was the first mistake. Don't get me wrong, you have a pretty decent hand here, but, when you raise early and get action you're only creating a big pot that you must continue to play with the disadvantage of being out of position. Since you checked on the flop, I think any aggressive player would almost always bet with this board when checked to in last position regardless of their holdings.

Why did you call the flop bet? It seems as though you were mainly hoping to make your flush with the long shot of 3-outing the nut straight or 1-outing the nut flush... I think this is your second mistake. If you were going to gamble with making a hand that was not the nuts in the first place you should be more than willing to call the river, but, we'll get to that in a second...

The turn brings one of your miracle cards and I think you make your third mistake by betting into the villian instead of letting him keep control of the hand with hopes of check raising him/her if they bet. I would check it to them, hope that they make another 3/4 pot bet and then check raise pot back to them.

Since you decided to retake control of the hand on the turn checking the river seems suspicious.... You've gotten yourself into a pretty odd situation that has a lot of what-ifs.

If you check what are you going to do if villian bets? If you bet what are you going to do if villian raises? If you check and villian bets will he/she fold if you check raise?

Villian will probably bet any flush if you check it to him. He'll definately bet the nuts. He may also bet the broadway straight. There's a slight chance he'll bluff if checked to as well. I'd see what odds he's laying you if he does bet and then make my decision from there.

Villian could just have a straight or a set and check right behind you if you check. That diamond could be giving him some worry as it should you as well. There's only one hand that possibly beats you and given the action up until now it could be 50/50 of him having it.

I hate how this hand got to this point. It's pretty much a "You made your own bed now lay in it" situation. If he has the Ace-X diamond you're pretty much trapped into calling. The hand would be different if it came runner runner diamond and not two on the flop. It's not like the villian doesn't see those diamonds out there. Is villian the type to get heavily involved without a draw to the nuts?

G O N E F O R E V E R