Stars $22 Deepstack -- early play with top two?

[Insane_Steve]

I'm trying to learn early strategy in MTTs a bit better. I find that I tend to have an average or below average stack a lot late and thus need to find better spots to win chips early.

Reads: UTG+1 is a complete moron. No reads on MP2, but based on the pre-flop min-reraise, MP2 is also a complete moron.

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t10/t20
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Hero: t4570
UTG+1: t3996
MP1: t4901
MP2: t4512
MP3: t6586
CO: t5220
Button: t4820
SB: t5345
BB: t4960

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to t70</font>, UTG+1 calls t70 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t100)</font>, MP1 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises to t120</font>, 2 folds, Button calls t120 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t290)</font>, SB calls t110 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t410)</font>, BB folds, Hero calls t50 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t520)</font>, UTG+1 calls t50 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t570)</font>.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t620, 5 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets t450</font>, UTG+1 calls t450 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1070)</font>, <font color="#cc0000">MP2 raises to t900</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#0000cc">Hero ????</font>

How's my line, both pre-flop and after the flop? What's the line after the expert min-raise by MP2?

[HandCracker]

pre-flop and post-flop look fine i would flat call the min raise and slow play it on the flop

[Bakes]

i'd just call, and lead a small amount on the turn so you can hopefully keep utg+1 sandwhiched in between.

[Trappped]

JT is a plausable holding for the limper/caller here, so this board gives him a double gut str8 draw (K or 9). The real problem is obviously the other guy, the preflop reraiser. You pegged everyone here a moron, but unfortunetely even morons get delt premium cards.
With top 2 pair here, the only thing you're worried about is a set of Queens or Aces (8's too, but that doesnt fit the betting pattern). You can beat AK , KK and JJ.
You have to decide if you can really fold here on the slim chance someone flopped a 1 outter, since you hold AQ. Normally, HU, you might just check call this down so if you are crushed, at least you might not go broke on this hand so early on. BUT, since there is someone else involved in the pot and assuming a potential str8 draw, I think you're only 2 choices are fold or shove, post flop, IMO.

[Insane_Steve]

The problem I have with the hand is that MP2's betting pattern fits AA or QQ very well, especially since I figure him to be a very bad player. It also fits AK, though or even KK.

Follow up question: Let's say I call the raise. UTG+1 I figure would also call. the turn was K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] -- Maybe one of the worst cards in the deck for my hand. AK and KK now beat me, and so does JT if UTG+1 was chasing with it. (Though, I can see UTG+1 on ace-rag or worse here just as easily from how I saw him playing earlier) What's my play on this turn?

For what it's worth, [actual result follows in white]
<font color="white">I shoved and MP2 had AA. I figured MP2 would snap call with AK and probably wouldn't even fold KK there. I don't think I stack off here if I take a turn card and it's the Kd.</font>

[Trappped]

If I take a turn card and its the Kd, I definately fold now since I'm not beating much of anything here.
Saw your results, tough loss there. I always reflect on those type of hands. Maybe in the future your best move is to fold AQ preflop to 2 raises, I usually fold AQ, AJ to 1 raise, especially early since I depise going broke with these hands.
But in your situation the flop had to come close to perfect for you to go broke......the case Ace along with 1 of 3 Q's

[BriPlay]

ok since you discount MP2 as a total idiot i guess you can reduce chance of AA or QQ which both crush you (but would explain the minraise). AK or even AJ are possibilities, both of which you crush. KJ and KQ are also possible from donkville. 88 is unlikely imho.
I'd raise to 2,000 or 2,500 to see if you can get UTG+1 out and get HU. If MP2 pushes id call and hope to not see AA QQ

Brian

[Insane_Steve]

If MP2 is as bad as I think he is, then I think AA or QQ is a bit more likely than it would be because of the pre-flop min-reraise line. I tend to be very wary of min-reraises on any street from bad players -- they just scream "CALL CALL CALL". That said, on the flop there's only two aces and two queens left in the deck, and the fact that 3 other people called preflop seems to reduce the odds that AA or QQ is floating around (limpers may have AX or QX). I don't expect to be min-reraised preflop by 88, and the other limpers (who I'd be more worried would have 88) folded on the flop.

So, I suppose the first question is: how often are we ahead of MP2, and if we think we are ahead, what's the best way to suck in AK or a similar hand from MP2? My read that MP2 is a donkey lies simply from the min-reraise preflop and the min-raise after the flop. I think I'm ahead often enough to try to extract chips rather than worry about AA or QQ in this spot.