two KQ turn decisions

[blindside]

first time poster so go easy on me...

20/40 at the Borg...

Playing LAG this session... a middle aged man who's typical loose passive limps UTG, UTG + 1 - middle aged woman who's on the tight/slightly aggro side who's running bad limps as well.. Next in, I pick up K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] , two cold callers behind me and SB folds and BB calls.

6-way to the flop for 6.5BBs

Flop: Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

UTG bets, woman raises, I make it 3. Folds to UTG who caps, woman calls, I call.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

UTG looks at it for 3 seconds then bets, woman calls. Online I think it's a clear raise but Live I'm not sure since calling a 3bet and folding the river would be pretty tough in this spot. Am I right in thinking this?


Second hand:

40/80 at Borg.

Slightly LAGgy to start the session but have toned down it quite a bit the last couple of hours. I squeeze K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG. Next in mid twenties kid who's 3 bet me twice before and who seems competent postflop, slightly overaggro, does so again. I haven't played with him much though. Everyone else folds.

Heads up to the flop for 3.75BBs.

K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I checkraise. He calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check planning to call and betting the river if the turn checks.

[jba]

hand 1 is standard, raising is retarded imo you are behind.

hand 2 he better think you are super nutty and hasn't adjusted to you toning it down or you're putting in too many bets. I'm not sure why you think checking the turn is a good idea at all. what is the point? is he really going to fold a pair? you think he has something like AJ/AQ or what? I'd just keep leading or if he doesn't think you're FOS i wouldnt even c/r the flop, and either donk the turn or river.

[iggymcfly]

Hand 1: Easy call. A loose-passive is going to have QT here more often than not.

Hand 2: Just bet it. You're costing yourself at least one bet and possibly the pot against ace high hands, and may be costing yourself a bet against PPs as well. I really don't see any benefit to checking the turn here.

[colgin]

Hand 2:

I can see check-calling the flop and checking the turn. But once you choose to c/r the flop here I don't see how you don't follow it up with a turn bet. What is the point of checking here? If you are afraid of paying too much to better hands or letting hands you beat find a good fold, then I don't get your flop c/r in the first place.

[blindside]

In Hand 1, I called. The river bricked off a 3. They both checked and I bet and then they both folded. UTG said he had T7. Lady said she couldn't call.

In Hand 2, I was actually the other guy in the hand. The other person was someone who I thought was pretty good, mixes it up pretty well, and thought maybe I was missing something. He was definately not anyone I would expect this from. Thought it would be interesting from his POV. I had KK and you could guess how the rest of the hand went.

[Nate.]

On the first hand I like just calling the turn. Nothing you want to fold will fold, so it's just a matter of equity, and even if you lose a little money just calling here you have a good shot at getting it back (and then some) on the river. In spots like this, if it's very close I raise if I'm west of the Mississippi and call if east. So call.

--Nate

[metalpest]

I had a low limit hand similar to the first one, but with a lower top pair and an A kicker. I raised the turn bet and sure enough had her outkicked. There is a good chance you have a Q outkicked here, and the woman could hold various straight draws and should be charged. I would assume a hand that had you beat here would go for a check-raise given the flop action, and you are probably ahead. If you think AQ or a full house would continue to bet, then calling is just fine.

If my low-limit hand had been middle limit, I may have just called. Low limit players are more likely to bet out without a kicker or with another hand I have beat than are middle limit players.

[blindside]

I think some players in this game after a bet/cap, bet turn into 2 other players just yells extreme strength, so raising I would think would be a big mistake especially when I can have as many as 7 outs in a humongous pot.

How big of a mistake I wasn't sure of. But like in any hand it depends on the players.

I'm pretty sure, at least based on my last two visits to Vegas, there are lot of 20 and even some 30 players that play "East Coast" timid especially from a lot of locals.

[danzasmack]

Did you raise pf in hand 1? I would raise pf.

[blindside]

yes i raised PF, sorry. i should edit that.