www.donkit.com

[Men the Master]

On the main page of www.twoplustwo.com there is a paid ad that you can click that would take you to a site called www.donkit.com. In that site videos are sold on various online games which the authors (cero z and curtains, both of whom are respected posters in the SNG and NLH forums here on twoplustwo) have played.

My main question is that is there any commentary of the plays and sessions that are shown on the videos? If so, how instructive are they?

Any reviews would be appreciated. And no I am not affiliated with the site and am therefore not spamming..

[ledfoot]

I have purchased KPR's two limit videos and Cero's $400 nl video. Both players provide commentary. KPR's first 10-20 6 max video included a Word doc with additionals comments. I don't play no limit but bought Cero's video just to watch and listen to his ultra-LAG style.

[Bill Haywood]

I watched one of KPRs vids. I think he's a good player, but his patter is hard to follow. Not much effort has been put into figuring out the most comprehendible style, forensics wise. It's more just a guy blabbing while cursors and chips flit about.

Rather than do a single take of jabber, they need to edit and deepen the voice over. But $5 was a good price for what you get, I benefited from it. It just could be so much better.

[MicroBob]

I had similar thoughts on some of Stox's videos.

All that freaking FullTilt beeping while Stox is trying to finish his thought AND play the games and always coming very close to timing-out. Arrgh. I cringe.

I think that recording his voice live while he's playing and having all the noises in the background is a mistake.

If he just recorded the games first at regular speed.
And then LATER added his voice-over commentary without ANY sounds from the tables.
And then simply paused the video of the tables every time he needed to elaborate on a thought.
I think that would be the winning formula.


I'm reminded of college-football coaches showing the video to their players.
they will stop the video and reverse it back to the beginning of the play, and show it in slow-motion over and over while they repeat their point to look at the guy in the corner who's sagging too much, now look at the pressure they get on the left-side of the line.
"Smith, look, you're out of position again here. Same damn mistake. Look at that again."
And they have a little clicker that rewinds to the beginning of the play, and then in slow-mo, and then in pause, "See, look where you are."


I don't think that showing it in slow-motion or replaying it over and over would work quite so well with poker.
but simply pausing it to explain the point would work very well imo.

And sometimes the replay on an interesting hand wouldn't be so bad.
You take 2 minutes or so to explain the logic of all the plays throughout.
then you go back and run it through again in about 15 seconds to say, "So, to recap, I put him on a big hand at first. But this check right here struck me as really funny. And then I think I'm good often enough to have to call on the river."

If I were any good at the strategy stuff and had inclinations towards doing such instructive videos then that's the direction I would take it.

[stoxtrader]

the background noises will be fixed going forward - it's as simple as turning my speakers off during recording (I just sometimes forget to do it). As far as pausing playback, I have started using thepokertracker hand replayer at the end of videos to go over the more important hands in the session.

As far as timing out, it is probably part of having to do commentary while playing, but I know when people sweat me they have the same complaint...I often come close to timing out as I have the habit (good or bad) of doing tough decisions slowly/last - I think it definitely helps to NOT give away timing tells, and maybe lets me think about them a bit longer. In 600k hands or so of high stakes poker I think I have timed out in a real hand maybe twice or so.

[MicroBob]

Interesting Stox.

Yeah, I saw you replay a couple hands at the end of the session via p-tracker and I liked that.

I was specifically thinking about a recent FT .5/1 limit 6-max table you ahd recorded and the beep-beep when you were running out of time was really distracting.

If waiting and thinking about it and letting the timer run is how you normally play anyway then I think that's pretty interesting.
I thought it was more due to you trying to squeeze in some of your thoughts while you were playing and just holding up your decision while you did that.

But it definitely seems like you are sitting there thinking it through and aren't completely committed to your decision until much later when you actually click the button.

I'm liking the videos and feel I'm learning a lot.

[stoxtrader]

thanks for the feedback. someone else a month ago commented on the beeps and i simply forgot to turn them off in my last two videos. my own fault, but easily solved going forward if i can simply remember.

when I 8-12 table NL for sure i often let the timer rundown.

[steamboatin]

I haven't seen stoxtrader's video(s) but I can speak from personal experience from other projects, play by play commentary is much more difficult than it appears.

[MicroBob]

Steam - details please.

Have you done play-by-play?

[dbirider16]

[ QUOTE ]
.

I think that recording his voice live while he's playing and having all the noises in the background is a mistake.

If he just recorded the games first at regular speed.
And then LATER added his voice-over commentary without ANY sounds from the tables.
And then simply paused the video of the tables every time he needed to elaborate on a thought.
I think that would be the winning formula.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the suggestion MicroBob.

The donkit authors do the commentary in real time because we feel it gives better insight to what's going through their head while they're playing a normal session. This is something you can't get from reading poker books or reviewing hand histories with knowledge of what happens.

But you're right, the way you mention does have its advantages and we'll mix in a few voice over videos in the future. Also, we're setting up a donkit blog where authors can add additional insight to the hands played in their videos and strategies.