Need a more aggressive MTT strategy?

[Mhoram]

This post may be a bit of a ramble, thanks in advance for reading.

So I was playing a 45 man SNG on Full Tilt the other day. I'm a tight player, I play about 20% of the hands i'm dealt. The first 30 hands I got were not playable at all, atleast not in the positions I got them. After 30 hands, which takes about 30 minutes, we were down to 20 players and the blinds had increased to the point my stack was about 12 times the big blind, without ever playing a hand.

Now I know from experience as well as statistics, that was an unusually bad run of cards and isn't likey to happen often, but it really got me thinking. I've always played a tournament style where I wait for good hands and try to double up, i've had good success with this, but this experience made me regret playing a style that leaves me completely dependent on catching good cards and good hands against second best hands.

On Full Tilt you start with 1500 chips and the blinds are at 15 and 30 and they go up every 9 minutes. In a fast paced tournament like this, is the tight/aggressive "wait for good hands" strategy a bad one?

You start with 1500 chips, with 45 players that is 67,500 chips in play. The final six players who get paid will have an average chipcount of 11,250. If i'm going to get paid I have to find a way to turn 1500 into something around 11,250. In these things you usually get down to the final table in about an hour, about 60 hands. If I only play 20% of those 60 hands, i'm only playing 12 hands, and i'm not even going to hit the flop a lot of the time. To turn 1500 into 11,250 i've got to double up three times with only 12 hands to do it.

So i'm wondering two things, do I need to loosen up and play more hands, even though it costs valuable chips, am I forced to put these chips on the line to see more flops to give myself a chance?

And secondly, I know that the magic number for a shortstack push is 10 times the big blind. What about being willing to put all my chips on the line on a 50/50. You get the chance for a few coin flip situations in tournaments. I like to avoid them in favor of a bigger advantage because just how many coin flips in a row do I expect to win? How many times in a tournament can I put all or most of my chips on the line on a coinflip and not expect that one of them will put me out?

That's been my reasoning, but as fast as the blinds climb, am I not forced to take these chances, since the alternative is being caught by the blinds and being forced to either catch a rush of cards or push with 10bb and hope? I hate the idea of being forced to win coinflips to win a tournament, but in an online tournament, do I really have a choice?

Throw any thoughts you have out there. Meanwhile i'm going to go play some cheap tournaments and play more aggressively trying to build chips and stay well ahead of the blinds, pushing every edge to give myself a chance to win. Just hanging in there and making the money isn't good enough for me, all the money is at the top so I might as well take lots of risks and hope, otherwise i'm wasting my time hanging in there for a small cash or none at all.

Thanks.

[RetiredAt22]

well if you want to cash in tournies, this strategy might work, but my opinion, if i put in 2-4 hours of work on a tourny and only get 3x my buy in, im a little dissapointed. I think your strategy is fine in a deepstack tourny, they have em at PS, dunno about FTP, but you might want to seek out tournaments with higher starrting chipstacks and slower levels. the kind of tourny your playing is similar to a "turbo" we have at PS, i stay away from those like the plague because after about 45 minutes its just a steal fest, and you see showdowns preflop of K5 against Q9s and theres just no skill.

My advice: find different tournaments that will be tailored to your play style. also, loosen up your play a bit. not calling more, but raising more hands, if your tagged as a TAG/rock, your gonna get respect from the table (granted your not playing $3 tournies with stay at home moms and 17 year olds). no offense to the grinding moms and 17 year old +3.4bb/100 crowd out there.

And for your coin flip situation. If you got 99 against AK, its not a coin flip. its 55:45. and to win tournaments you need to exploit that 10% difference. any time you feel your 55:45, you get your money in there. the object in tournaments is to accumulate chips. id rather be 3rd in chips, and get beat on two consecutive 55/45 "flips" to bounce me from a tourny than to sit and wait for top 1o prime hands and wilt away under the blinds/antes

[ItalianFX]

1 + .25 45 man? The blinds go up every 6 minutes, just to correct you.

Anyways, that is what I have been playing also. Just be patient and play TAG. The players are pretty bad. I think they are alot worse than Pokerstars. As the blinds start to pick up, loosen up your playing range. When you get near 10xBB, start finding places to push.

Gobboboy gave me some good advice. In his "Well," he said, "You're playing really low stakes for a reason. Go nuts! Start pushing when you think it might be correct. See what works for you. You can get late in those $1 tournaments all the time, so there's no reason to not test out things that work. You're paying to learn, not to win yet."

[Mhoram]

I'm playing 10 and 20 dollar 45 man, or a 5 if I have to. In a 1 dollar I probably would push early and often and either get a chipstack or move on to the next 1 dollar one. I have plenty of bankroll from cash games to play 10 and 20 and still not be worried about cashing, I want top three or i'll just play cash games. Thats why i'm looking at a strategy that is more likely to help me get there. I just don't want to play poor poker in the process, taking too many or foolish risks. Thats what I need help on, what adjustments to make.

[Mhoram]

Dang, you're right, they do go up every six minutes in a SNG, even the 45 man ones, whereas regular touranments are 10 minutes. I didn't realize that. I like the the 45 man SNGs because I feel I can beat 44 people, I don't feel that way about 200 people. But those blind increases alone are enough reason to play true tournaments more..

[ChipSpeak]

I agree with the switch.. those blinds do not cater to your style of play. If you are playing against lesser talent, get to 15 min blinds, you see so many more hands, opportunities to exploit poor play are increased dramatically in 15 vs 6 min blinds. Stars offers many tourneys with 15 min blinds as well as deep stack ...

[BigAlK]

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Dang, you're right, they do go up every six minutes in a SNG, even the 45 man ones, whereas regular touranments are 10 minutes. I didn't realize that. I like the the 45 man SNGs because I feel I can beat 44 people, I don't feel that way about 200 people. But those blind increases alone are enough reason to play true tournaments more..

[/ QUOTE ]

I've had reasonable success (never going to get rich at this buy-in, but solidly in the black) playing these at the $5 and $10 level in spite of occaisional bouts of donkeyness. I normally play tight at first (how tight depends on cards and the rest of the table). Figure out what it will take to get chips from which players. Sometimes you have to make plays based purely on position and aggression if the cards aren't coming. Just make sure you know the players in the hand can lay down 2nd pair. Although the blinds are fast they also go up in smaller increments. Yes, these are fast, but not as bad as it might seem.

Also try playing some of the 90 player SnGs. They start with double stacks and use the regular MTT blind structure with longer (10 min) blinds.

[Vraket]

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i stay away from those like the plague because after about 45 minutes its just a steal fest, and you see showdowns preflop of K5 against Q9s and theres just no skill.


[/ QUOTE ]

I get your point, but you're wrong. There is skill, just another type of skill and knowledge that is the key to success.

[durkahdurkah]

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Also try playing some of the 90 player SnGs. They start with double stacks and use the regular MTT blind structure with longer (10 min) blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 90-mans on FT also use the 6-minute blind structure IIRC.

[BigAlK]

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The 90-mans on FT also use the 6-minute blind structure IIRC.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was true until recently. They changed the structure of these sometime in the last several weeks to the same structure as MTTs (at least lower limit ones - not sure if they have something different at higher buy-ins). These now have 10 minute blinds, but introduce antes at level 10.